From Intern To General Manager

What does it really take to move from coffee runs and safety walkthroughs to calling the shots as General Manager? We sit down with Simon to unpack the long road from unpaid intern to leading Pascon, and we get honest about the moments that mattered: the sting of being passed over, the decision to stay and prove it, and the pressure-cooker months where deadlines beat comfort and growth finally clicked.

We dig into the mechanics of modern construction leadership—how to compress schedules by eliminating dead space between trades, why clarity and conviction outperform noise when holding suppliers to dates, and how a commercial mindset turns “next week” into “today.” Simon breaks down how COVID forced a jump from office routines to on-site command, why that shift accelerated his learning curve, and how he built the habits that stuck: year-over-year self-audits, relentless program focus, and choosing composure when chaos hits.

Stepping into the GM role raises the stakes and changes the work. We talk valuation of time and leverage—taking on sales, brand, and negotiation while delegating repeatable tasks. There’s a simple formula here: if the target is $40M, the calendar must show it. That means installing dashboards for schedule and cashflow, empowering supervisors to make decisions without a call chain, and creating a culture where accountability beats presenteeism. We even wrestle with the work-from-home debate, tying productivity to measurable outputs rather than vibes.

Finally, we explore why personal brand matters in construction. People buy from people. Publishing short, useful insights—on LinkedIn, video, or site explainers—earns trust, attracts better clients, and opens unexpected doors. And underneath it all sits the trait that separates winners from watchers: action. Ship the first clip, make the first pitch, take the first meeting. That bias to move is how you go from “not yet” to “no-brainer.”

If this conversation hits home, follow the show, share it with a mate who’s aiming higher, and leave a quick review—it helps more builders and managers find the playbook.

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Simon: From Intern To GM
• 5:17 Early Career Detours And Uni Lessons
• 9:45 Internships, Working Free, And Real Learning
• 15:30 First Sites, Coffee Runs, And Ramp Up
• 21:30 Skill Growth And Owning The Craft
• 26:30 COVID Pressure And On‑Site Baptism
• 31:00 Tough Moments And Crossroads
• 37:00 Firmness, Authority, And Trade Management
• 43:00 Deadlines, Commercial Mindset, No Gaps
• 48:00 Missing GM Role And Resilience
• 54:00 Proving Grounds: Delivering Under Fire
• 1:00:00 Stepping Into GM: Sales And Strategy
• 1:05:00 Ambition Check: Why Not $40M?
• 1:11:00 Time Value, Delegation, And Scale
• 1:18:00 Culture, WFH Debate, And Accountability

Transcript

George: 0:00

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Million Dollar Days. We are joined by a very special person by someone who's probably the biggest mover and shaker in the construction space.

Robby: 0:11

I've been here for a while, George. It's not my first episode.

George: 0:14

Oh, sorry. Second biggest mover and shaker in the construction space. And that is the general manager of possibly one of the new construction companies in Australia. So I'm a Tavakis, general manager of PassCon. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Took a while, but we got there. It did take a long time, actually.

SPEAKER_02: 0:33

How many episodes? 120 odd episodes.

Robby: 0:35

120 decided. There you go. We were counting this from day one.

SPEAKER_01: 0:39

Took 120 episodes to get me here.

Robby: 0:41

Took uh two years to get me to GM. Yeah. Since the idea was floated. Yeah, but so we um when we first launched this podcast, we were like, okay, cool. Episode 1000, Gary V, episode 120, Simon. Yeah. It was the first agenda. Picked off those two boxes and went. Oh, actually, I actually thought I would have been on a bit earlier. Look, I made some requests that were denied. I won't say who may or may not have denied them.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06

They were subject to skin fades, which I still haven't got.

Robby: 1:10

Me too. So we're in the same boat there. Uh but no, it's good to have you on, man. I think uh, you know, I think we we're trying to work out how we're gonna get you to listen. And we figured this is gonna be the best way.

George: 1:21

Yeah, listen to listen to what one and only episode. Do you have much we bagged you across the 319 episodes? Yeah, why haven't you stimulated?

Robby: 1:30

I'm pretty sure you could have won free tickets to break.

George: 1:33

So any things you could have won because Simon, if you're listening, if you say to me by Monday, we're like we're gonna get a free ticket at a free ticket to break.

Robby: 1:40

You will give you this.

George: 1:40

And you'll never happen not once.

Robby: 1:42

Not once. Fuck, I'm gonna start listening.

George: 1:44

Yeah, yeah. But welcome. Welcome. Okay, so Simon's been with Pascon almost since day one. Almost. And something that was impressive with yourself when you first started was you worked for free. Yeah. Slave labor. You just said, hey George, I want to work for free. And I'm like, absolutely, don't want to pay you a thing. But you started your internship here, which was good because that was part of your studies, wasn't it?

unknown: 2:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

I guess it's the story of Simon. Pretty much I finished school and got into construction management at the time and went to RMIT. Now doing what I think. Construction management. Now, people who know me know that I love being around my friends. I'm all about the vibe. You probably know that. Um that's true. You should see the vibe of Passcon. Yeah. That's damage. I'm all I'm all about environment and vibe and people and friends.

Robby: 2:49

I didn't sound like you shouldn't be the gem. Sounds like you should get an HR manager.

SPEAKER_01: 2:53

Oh fuck, I'll be it'd be a lot more fun. Yeah. Um how do I get a job there? Yeah. Um, but yeah, anyway, I went to RMIT and I just I just didn't like the environment. The only reason I stayed there that first year was because I actually worked there. I just love working for cousins. So I worked with my cousin, with our cousin Con. Um and after that year, I was like, okay, I only worked that first year. The second year I was like, oh no, this isn't for me. I can't be here. Went to Deacon, but it was just a standard sort of management and project management degree. And then yeah, I I lost that opportunity to get an internship because that was part of, I think with you did it with multiplex, didn't you?

George: 3:31

No, no. I did I went straight into a grad program at Multi's. Okay. So we at the course back then we didn't internship.

SPEAKER_01: 3:38

Yeah. But anyway, part of the fourth year at RMIT now is you go and work at one of these, you can get an internship, one of these big students.

George: 3:45

Which I think is a fantastic idea as a student. So you do often get students listening. I think it's a great idea that, and that's probably a mistake I made early on in my career was I didn't go out and get a job like in my third or fourth year in a construction company because honestly, you learn so much more. So much more. Like ask me what I fucking remember from uni. Absolutely nothing. Yeah, it's gonna be something. There's gotta be something. I'll tell you, yeah. I remember the parties. I remember going out on the Tuesday night and doing Toss the Boss. And have you ever heard of that? Toss the Boss the Boss, yeah. Go to Cheers in Glenf in Hawthorne. They had this thing called Toss the Boss where you flip, you go to the bar, order your drinks, they flip a coin, and you call heads or tails. If you win, you get the drinks for free. If you lose, you just pay for your drinks. It was very cheap uni night, especially when you became friends with the people behind the bar. Yeah, I know they wouldn't do that now. I thought the drinks were probably water-drowned.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Probably.

George: 4:36

Anyway, side note, please continue.

SPEAKER_01: 4:39

Um, yeah, so I remember back then you were at Estia when I first contacted the first iteration of so you I had I don't even know if you'd started Pascal at that point.

George: 4:49

No, well, I mean, I was out on my own, so this is very early days. So Pascon was called was a different company when we first started. We did start off as a development company doing just our own developments, and it was called Estier developments back then. And a couple years in, that's when we sort of changed it up and went to a different model altogether.

SPEAKER_01: 5:10

Yeah, so I called you at when it was then, by the time we got around to this internship, which was that was into 2016, I think. And then 2017 is when I called you again, and I'm like, hey, like um, I need to do this for uni because it was actually my course that I moved there at Deacon, they required you to do a work-based, like a you know, a field-based study. Yeah, like a placement essentially. Uh, and that's when you had basically started ramping up PASCON. I think you'd started Rosanna and you were doing um St Kilda East or West. St. Kilda West. Uh, and yeah, I think it was that I was April 2017 that I started the internship with you at Buildsept. And then it was uh later on that year that I was working for free, as you say. But I wasn't really working for free.

George: 5:59

It was kind of like it's a trade-off. And we've been talking about this recently about getting some more interns in the office here now. It's not a free, it actually costs me money. When someone says to me, I'm gonna come work for you for free, I'm like, dude, I'd rather pay someone that's good. Yeah. As opposed because the time that's gonna take me to invest in you now to train you is far more valuable to me than you working for you know, 30 bucks an hour, whatever the fuck it's gonna be. So uh yeah, you there is the the trade-off is you're coming to work somewhere to get the experience so you can then get your foot in the door either at that company or somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

Yeah, but I think look, the good thing about an internship is because it is uh look, whether let's just assume it's not paid, right? If you're working, if you've got someone who's willing to work for free just so that they can learn, that's very I think that's very rare in this current generation. I feel like it was more when I did it, I didn't think it was, oh, I'm better than that person or this person because I'm willing to work for free, or I'm willing to do this for free, I want to show him. Yeah, it was like, yeah, I want to show George that I'm willing to be here, I'm willing to learn, and I want to know, you know, I want it's I for me, I did it because I'm like, I don't have any other opportunity. That's how I thought I saw it.

George: 7:10

Yeah, there was nothing else on the tables as well. And for clarity's sake, for those of you that don't know, myself and Simon are cousins as well.

SPEAKER_01: 7:16

So there was that so there was that connection, but at the same time we were cousins. But to me, to me, you weren't any more of a cousin than Robbie's my yeah, yeah, workmate. You know what I mean?

George: 7:26

Like, yeah, because we weren't we weren't as connected back then.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

I think I could probably count on two hands how many times I'd seen you in 17 years or no, 20 whatever years of my life in that at that time.

George: 7:36

Yeah, so and now I speak to you more than naturally.

SPEAKER_01: 7:39

So when I when I when we had that sit down and I was like, hey, I want you know, I'm willing to do this, willing to do that. It wasn't uh he's my cousin who'll let me do it. It was like you didn't know me, I didn't know you at that time. It was like I was like, I was any, I was like any other person off the street. So yeah, it was uh a good opportunity. I remember going to do safety walkthroughs at Rosanna, and I'd always call up Steve or Nick, because Nick was an apprentice then, asking if anyone wanted coffees. And I remember on my$300 a week Maya wage, I was really hoping there'd be no more than two. Um, but yeah, no, it was a it was a fun time, and then yeah, we went on from there, and then I became part-time initially and then full-time in September 2020 2018.

George: 8:24

Yeah, was then we had won a significant project and yeah, and yeah, and then it was like cool. We we ripped the band-aid off as a as a company and said, cool, we're gonna just put someone on full-time and and then sort of hit the ground running from there. So yeah, it was it was definitely good times. Um good.

SPEAKER_01: 8:42

So yeah, it's been uh it's been a it's been a journey. It's uh it's weird because it's it doesn't feel like it's been it doesn't feel like it's been nine years that I've been affiliated with you in a say in a sense, like pass gone because it's gone very quick.

Robby: 8:59

It's gone very well how long it's been nine years?

SPEAKER_01: 9:01

Well it'll be nine years since I did my internship with George next April, like not this year. Yeah. So it's been eight years.

Robby: 9:10

Are you uh licking your lips for what? That long service?

George: 9:14

No, for he's I've already scheduled the the like firing him on the right day, so yeah. We're back dating.

Robby: 9:20

So five is out and then rehire the next nine years and 350. Three short seven years that you're eligible for long service now. No, we should seven you get a percentage.

George: 9:28

George has George hasn't read the contract that you should. You need to read the contract. I know it inside out. What is it?

Robby: 9:34

I'm just saying you there's no there's nothing. You qualify for a certain amount at seven, but you can't use it until ten. But if you leave between seven and ten, you get paid out a percentage.

SPEAKER_01: 9:44

No That's the law.

Robby: 9:46

It's the law. It's not George has probably made it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

George's probably made at twenty. I'll break the law.

Robby: 9:50

George? You think George has been paying you super?

SPEAKER_01: 9:54

Yeah, sporadically, every three years I got a I get an influx of pages.

Robby: 10:00

Nah. But yeah. How's what's been um what's been the biggest highlight working at Pascon?

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

Um it's it's interesting because for me It's not a good start. No, no, no. It's just like hey good, like yeah, it was um lunch. Let me nice a chat. Look, there's been there's been a lot of challenges and a lot of excuse. I wouldn't say there's I wouldn't say highlight, I would say the best thing I've gotten out of it, and which is something that you don't even realize is how much you learn from day to day. So for me, the biggest highlight would be um realizing how much I've sort of come to learn about the industry and the the craft of construction without having to ever pick up a hammer.

unknown: 10:50

Yeah.

George: 10:51

You know what I mean? Like there's a tough, there's the whole, and we said this the other day, it's you it's who you become as a person of being in these situations as well. It's not just the I'm gonna learn how to be really good at constructing things or managing things. You actually become your character develops during that time as well. And going through challenging scenarios or difficult people or good times, it builds a lot of character.

SPEAKER_01: 11:16

Yeah, yeah. And I think I remember day one. Um I'm I I I have a vivid memory of this searching up on the computer at BuildSEP is a slab the same as a foundation. Like I was asking, what is a board peer? Yeah. I didn't know any of the, I didn't know anything. When I said I knew nothing, I knew nothing. So to now have these discussions with not only trades, but having it with engineers and giving them sort of suggestions of what if you do this, how about we do it like this? It's like that's that's that's something that I wouldn't have even thought was scared of those things.

George: 11:51

It's funny how you say that. Like you, it's I I've thought that myself as well. It's like I see things now, yeah, and people will come to me for advice. How should I do that? Yeah. And it's like, we're not, I'm not a carpenter, I'm not a plumber, I'm not an electrician, I'm not a structural engineer, yet I'm the one telling them how to do everything. I understand the principles. I'm like, why don't you do this? Well, why don't you do that? Why don't you change this? Yeah. You know, and it you end up workshopping things and thinking about it logically, and as a result, you end up running the show, which is what a builder is effectively doing. They're managing the building process, they're not physically putting nails into timber.

SPEAKER_01: 12:24

Yeah. So yeah, look, it's um yeah, stuff like that. It's been, it's been, it's been good and it's been interesting to just constantly every every year. It's and that's what I kind of do. I kind of measure my years by okay, where the okay, this so at the end of December or around December time, I'll always look back and say, okay, where was I this time last year? Like, have I have I improved? Have I made more money? Have I increased my skills? You know, do can I do more than I was doing a year ago? And yeah, if the answer is yes, I kind of know I had a better, a good year, right? If the answer is no, or if the answer is I haven't really changed, like I'm doing the same stuff I was doing a year ago, just a year later, it's like, well, what have I done this year? Like, what has to what do I have to change next year? Um and I think that's that's the biggest thing for me, and that's what's helped me since probably since COVID. Because I think COVID, when we had COVID, I kind of you fall fall into this kind of comfortable state of oh well, I'm just kind of sitting here now until this is all over. Yeah, I wasn't really thinking, I don't know, maybe I wasn't old enough, or maybe I was just lazy, or maybe time went past too quick. And before you think, should I have done something in that period that I didn't I didn't think about doing? Like, you know, if they say that the um the richest people get make the most money when the world is in the shit, you know, like GFCs and all that stuff. So yeah, it that's probably my uh if we're looking back and regrets, it's probably like okay, could I have done more in those years?

Robby: 14:01

What would you have done that you'd I don't know what's a that's the thing, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

I don't know. Well could I, I don't know, I don't know. Well I've studied more and done, I don't know, maybe found that how I used that opportunity where thing was everything was really slow to I don't know, get a get look at my maybe I have my booty's license by now, who knows? But I think the second year of COVID was different because from when I remember when when we had Calvin and he left in March 2021. How do you remember that shit, man? I remember everything. Shout out to Calvin. KB. I was um big dog. I was on uh I was on site basically from March to the to the end of the year. Yeah. Because then we went from March, did Brew Street and Elmer Street, and then moved on to Merindale, and then was there till mid 200 years. This is where I So it was kind of really one and yeah.

George: 14:45

This is where I think you actually got your most significant growth at the company, was when I I've thrown you more often than not, I've I've tried to throw you in the deep end on certain things and let you either figure it out, like a single swim scenario, and that was a perfect example. We had one of our supervisors at the time had resigned, which was fine. I said, Cool, I'm not gonna put on another supervisor, especially during COVID now. I'm gonna throw Simon there. And you went on the projects and it took you a couple months to get your head around it. I think you were a bit apprehensive about going on site as well, because you hadn't done that before. You were more office-based, and you're like, fuck, well, I don't know this, I don't know that. And you know, before long, you ended up picking it up pretty quickly and then getting a really good understanding of the project and then able to take it with, you know, what is it? Grab the bull with both horns, by both horns, and and actually control the site and got it finished and got it done, which was really great. The yeah, so I mean that was kind of before you before we got into that, I was gonna lead into what do you think was your most challenging time here. But I mean, you kind of insinuated that too with um with the COVID period. But do you look at it back and go, fuck, that was hard?

SPEAKER_01: 15:53

Not Bruce Street, not that period. I reckon the most I've probably had time I've probably had periods.

Robby: 16:00

So hey, yeah, talk English, because that just sounded like he asked you a question, you answered a different question. What's Bruce Street? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 16:05

Not that I'm like, what he asked me about COVID.

Robby: 16:07

This guy's like, nah, Bruce Street.

SPEAKER_01: 16:08

Not the Bruce Street project during COVID. Yeah, there we go.

Robby: 16:12

I would say a challenging moment. I was confused too.

SPEAKER_01: 16:15

Yeah, I don't know. I'd probably say the most challenging moment was probably the end of 21 mid to 22 from a work perspective, purely because I didn't really know. I don't remember, I wouldn't say I was at a crossroads, but I was a bit a bit of a crossroads of kind of not knowing what I was doing and whether this was for me and whether I enjoyed this, and kind of that was that was where was I I was probably the most challenging part, kind of not knowing what was next for me. Um, but I feel like and that's probably it was probably from that moment that I started measuring my years, um, like I was saying before. So I think you're good at identifying with me. You don't say much, but I don't know if you do it on purpose or whether you everything I do is on purpose. I don't know whether you do it on purpose or whether you're just kind of you just know me too well to know. It doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that it doesn't have to be who Jeffrey Epstein is.

Robby: 17:15

So we'll get to that later.

SPEAKER_01: 17:16

Um not a tennis player. Um but there were probably I don't know, you were saying it at like you were saying earlier this or late last year, you know, I'm surprised you didn't quit at the end of 2024.

George: 17:31

But no, I wasn't surprised. It wasn't that I was surprised. You were expecting me.

SPEAKER_01: 17:35

I was I I wouldn't uh it was you wouldn't have surprised if I didn't, if I did.

George: 17:40

Yeah, like it was a pot I saw it as a possibility, which we will get into that too, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:44

Yeah, now yeah, yeah. So for me it was like um yeah, it was just I feel like you knew you know when I'm not feeling right or how I'm feeling, and you kind of you know whether I'm just over-exaggerating or whether I'm actually genuinely Yeah, for sure.

George: 18:04

I I think I've learned that just seeing how you operate and what you do. Like, for example, I remember when you did go onto site from on one of the projects, I saw that you started to pick up a habit of being, and you still are like this now to a degree, but you're a hothead at times. And you're very you're you a lot of the time your first reaction will be to things of say someone does something wrong, you'll go, like, what the fuck are you doing? Are you an idiot? Maybe not as direct, but you'll be like, I don't give a shit. Get here, get it done, stop making excuses. Now, there are times when you need to be like that, I've got no doubt whatsoever. But then there's also times when you'll get people off side speech like that too, and you won't always get the best result. And then I'll speak to them and I say, Oi, you're doing this, this, and this. And then they go, Yeah, yeah, okay. Now, there is a little bit of talking to the head of the horse when it comes to stuff like that too, which annoys me in itself. As in if I if you tell someone to do something and they don't do it, and then I tell them to do something and they do, I'm like, Well, what the fuck was the difference between the words that came out of my face and his face? You know, like get the thing done, stop being a dickhead.

SPEAKER_01: 19:09

No, I think more recently I don't really see a difference whether it comes from my mouth or your mouth. I think early days it was.

George: 19:16

Those early days it did when they're like of course, because you were younger, so people were definitely pushing back because they want to do things on their terms, not ours.

SPEAKER_01: 19:24

Yeah, and they're probably there was probably an aspect of who's this young kid trying to tell me how to suck eggs. Yeah, exactly.

George: 19:30

You'll get that for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 19:30

Yeah, but that's that I think has changed recently, or in the last couple of years. But also, yeah, you're right. I have to control my emotions at times.

George: 19:42

It's it's look, my old man's very similar to that too, where he'll talk to someone in such a way, but it's not because you're just trying to be an asshole or you're a hard ass or anything like that. It's about getting the best result for that situation right there and then. And look, some people they need that firmness. It's not, it's not even that, it's conviction. It's like when someone says to you, Oh, I can't get there for three weeks. Hang on, mate. No, we've given you all the all the details, we've given you everything. You're letting us down now, just because you're not organized. No, you're gonna make this happen. And then it's that implied pressure that then ends them ends up getting them to where they need to be.

Robby: 20:16

So can you get the same result without doing that though?

George: 20:19

Yeah, I think you could, but it I I think there's a time to be firm as well because you can be a pushover in this industry as well. And I've seen that too. I've seen supervisors that are just far too nice, as in, oh please, can you get there? Like, nah man, I can't get there. Oh, okay, when can you get there? It's like you've got to at least ask the question. You've got to push the narrative and go, I'm I want you here on site here. And it's like, yep, I'll be there. We've confirmed it. And then the day comes and like, oh, I can't get there till Friday. I said, No, that I've booked trades following you. I've booked inspections following you, I've booked everything following you. We've done everything, we've gotten ready for you. I had I pushed other trades to be done and finished so you can then start. And now you're coming to the party saying you're gonna be two weeks late or a week late or whatever it is. Too bad. Like make it work. Whereas a lot of people might go, oh, okay, I guess I can just sit here for a week and do nothing whilst you come in. So I think there still has to be that level of authority where you need to tell people how it is.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

It is easier to fall into a habit of, oh, no one really cares how long how quickly I am on this job, how long I'm taking on this job. Yeah. So month or the Bryden apartment job that we did that I managed the second part of last year, well, after Mike came into the office, that was the first time I was really put on deadlines.

George: 21:37

And that was because, you know, Simon means it was a very commercial project as far as how it was run. Yeah, but so you had a client that was very commercial focused. When I say commercial focused, like program dates, this yeah, hand over.

SPEAKER_01: 21:50

As much as that look, and I was probably the most stressed I'd ever been in my life for those first sort of four months. But looking back, it also I also was a Amazed at how much work we got done in such a small period of time. Like I remember I think we started plastering in like February, and then it got to like mid-March, and we're putting January in. Yeah. And then I'm I I I actually looked back and I go, what we had done six weeks ago felt like it was six months ago. Yeah. Like it just felt like it was so long ago. Doing so much in that time. And that was probably when I got the when I when I started getting, like you said, a more of a commercial mindset of okay, this leads into that. There's no, there's no breaks. Like why we're breaks go go.

George: 22:35

And that's that's something I think that we we just had the conversation today about program. I said there can't be breaks. Yeah. We can't have days on end where you're like, oh, okay, so the plumber's coming on Thursday, he'll finish on Friday, and then the next trade's going to start Thursday week, and you've got four days where you've done nothing on site. Like you can't have that because days go by quick, but it's also days, it's money wasted. Yeah. You know, it's it's not the way to be operating a job. They need to be a well-oiled machine. Now, you know, you saw the urgency just from yourself coming in and taking over comparatively to what it was like the months prior as well. And that is a change in focus, mindset, personnel on site as well. Uh, you mentioned it a little while a little while ago. So you know dates better than I do, but let's just say it was a couple years ago.

Robby: 23:21

Uh the other day. The other day, always the other day.

George: 23:24

Yeah, it was the other day, too.

Robby: 23:25

It was the other day.

George: 23:26

So I had I had I had appointed um Mike as a general manager of the business at the time. And like because it was always between yourself and him. And there were two ways like I I had to decide which way to go. And at the time, I don't regret the decision, mind you. I think it was the right decision at the time. I was looking at experience, uh, knowledge, positioning, how everything was operating, and I thought the this the right decision was made at the time. Even though you could have probably competently taken it over at that time, I reckon even that next couple of years or that year and a half that you weren't in that role, you still developed further to make you better and where you are now. So let's I have I think we've we have spoken about this, but how did you feel when you didn't get the GM role?

SPEAKER_01: 24:18

Um fuck this guy, never come back to work. I was more shitty you gave the ranger to Mike, to be honest. Um, nah, for me it was more I felt like it was a I I didn't feel like I got promoted, if you know what I mean.

George: 24:37

Uh yeah, so at the time you did move into a yeah, so went from project manager to construction manager. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:44

Yeah, for me it was more like a glorified site manager role, right? At the time. So I felt a bit like uh I've just kind of been moved sideways to make way, so and been given a new title so that I don't feel bad, or something like that. So yeah, I felt a bit disheartened, but deep and I think uh because I knew there were specific things that Mike and Mike is a great guy, shout out to Mike, good bloke. Um, there were specific things at the time that I knew being here for at the time it was like six years or whatever it was. I knew things that Mike didn't know from a just a standard typical processes plate, like when it comes to things like G ops and which is our accounting software, um, stuff like that. And it was like, okay.

George: 25:34

No, but there's also the added advantage of you know, the whole way Passcon operates is very commercial like, as in esque as far as systems, processes, everything that I've learned in the commercial space, I've implemented here. So you still did have an advantage in that sense of the word, because Mike had come back, had come from more of a residential builder background, and he had some commercial background as well, but primarily operating his own business um as a residential builder.

SPEAKER_01: 26:01

Yeah, look, I did feel I did feel disheartened, but I think given my given my um what was happening with my personal life at the time, being my partner, I was like, okay, I've I'm gonna stick it out and see and just see how it goes. So I thought I sort of thought I was gonna give it about six to eight months and see how it panned out. Now I remember coming back at the start of last year, because that's when everything changed. And I yeah, it was probably the first time. I remember I actually remember the year before that coming back. I was really excited and really like motivated to get into it. Whereas I came back last year and I was like, I don't want to be here. It was probably the only time, first and only time I've ever kind of had that feeling being here.

George: 26:43

Yeah, well, the fo the first six months of last year was very different.

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

Yeah, and I think it was that as well. It was kind of like knowing how they were gonna pan out, knowing the pressure I was gonna be put under, uh, and knowing that I was kind of thrown into the deep end again. Again, but I kind of felt like it was more of a you've been yeah, I just yeah, I'm trying to do something over here, you just deal with this. That's how I felt. Like I I knew, I know you, I I think you knew I could deal with it. And I think I actually had no doubt.

George: 27:09

I I knew you would do it purely from a perspective is that that job needed what we just said, it needed some mongrel, like it needed someone to really push the project, and it wasn't getting that prior. It was too blase. Oh, this person's here on this day. And then you get on site, and I remember even you calling me up one day and go, This isn't fucking done, this isn't organized, this is missed. Like, how the fuck are we plastering right now? Yeah, and it's like, well, man, sort it out. That's what you're there to do. Like, make it happen.

SPEAKER_01: 27:37

Yeah, so yeah, I know. So for the first month, I was kind of like really like bad attitude on myself, whether you saw that or not, but I was kind of keeping it to myself. But then I remember one morning I was kind of walking to the car for another day of fun, and I was like, nah, I I I was I remember saying to myself, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fucking show George that I'm his best employee. That's it's that's I actually said those words out loud and I go, we're gonna fucking smash this job and I'm gonna I'm gonna show him that I'm there's no one better than me. Yep. And whether that meant finishing the job and saying, here's mate, here are the keys, thanks, see you later, I'm gonna go, I'm moving on, or whether that meant you're gonna you're gonna make me your GM now or whatever, I didn't know. But I was I knew that it would by the time I because I at that point I was going away in the middle of the year, and I made it my goal to finish that job before I left and to kind of say, Yeah, I'd done it. You whether you thought I wouldn't or wouldn't, I've done it. Um, and yeah, we got to that point, but towards the end, I didn't get that, I didn't have that sort of um hostile attitude of, you know, fuck George or anything like that. No, it was never about that.

George: 28:53

It was never about that. It was more, as you said, uh, I think what you just came up with was shows a lot of resilience and character when it comes to how you would a business owner would want an employee to be, right? Because it was more of I'm not gonna prove you wrong, I'm gonna prove myself right. That's it. And you just having that aspect of yourself and having that standard of yourself led to me having no other option than to promote, than to give the opportunity, because then I could see that and go, well, this is a no-brainer. And that's where it happened very quickly in my mind, as far as when I saw the direction of the company wasn't in the right hands and it needed to be changed. And that's where I uh I called up um Mike at the time. I said, Listen, had a chat with him. I said, Look, this isn't working, I'm gonna go in a different direction. And I said, I'm gonna promote my um Simon to this role because he's shown me that he's capable. He's shown me that the things that he was lacking when I made the initial promotion, he's now got. And if there's a certain element of certain things, I it's not really that hard for you now to fix or find.

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

I reckon it's pretty much only the the the ability to actually I've never run a company before, I'll never run a business.

George: 30:06

So that's probably some of the skills that you'll learn, but it's also there's other other things that you can like look at now and start to look at, which will happen pretty soon, is stuff like sales, like thinking about branding, thinking about marketing, thinking about um negotiations with not just subbies, but now clients, yeah. Putting you in the front foot and letting you run that show.

SPEAKER_01: 30:29

And that's yeah, and that's probably one thing I'm probably weary of this year is not to not to just be sort of be another, again, sideways step or glorified position and just a title where I actually have an effect and do something that is representative of my role, whether that be sort of taking the not one moment, the strain, but doing the things that you do when it comes to you know tendering or estimating or having this that that having that final meeting with the potential client that closes the deal. You know what I mean? Like stuff like that, which I've never done. I've always been in the background kind of doing the PMing, doing this the contract work, doing the management work um from an on-site perspective, but never actually been at the forefront of being like the face, yeah, I guess.

George: 31:14

And and as I said, that's gonna that'll change. Yeah, you know, you'll get those opportunities to to move forward. And again, it forces me to level up too, because I don't, I mean, the very easy thing for me to do is to be the player again, to go there and oh, it's all right, I'll I'll negotiate this one. I'll I'll I'll I'll do the video for the marketing on the face of the company, you know, and starting to step back and go, no, no, I need to hand pass this over and let you run that race and do that. Because otherwise, you know, we said it the other day. What what gives you the freedom from being your business? It's it it's if you're an operator of any sort in your business, then like you you still got a job.

Robby: 31:56

Yeah, trying to make yourself redundant, yeah. So what's the uh what's the first change you can implement in Pascal 2026? I reckon longer lunch breaks. Or extra, you know, work from home. Glenders catering.

George: 32:09

I don't know, but I hey don't fuck around.

Robby: 32:12

Working from home.

George: 32:13

Don't fuck around.

Robby: 32:14

I reckon that's a good one. You know, it's 2026.

SPEAKER_01: 32:17

Who who who's there to work from home? Me? Yeah and George. George basically works from home. His house is 100. His house has never been more than 100 metres away from the office anyway. It's like he's like a big study, his office. Um, I don't I don't know. It's I I think I I'm kind of looking at other okay, so Pascal's just celebrated its 10 years last year. And for me, the only the only the only thing I've kind of looked at is right, why are we not bigger? Why are they not 50 50 people working here and why aren't we not turning over 40 million dollars a year? That's probably the one question that I've had. And is that because yeah, there's been challenges, there's been a lot of things that have happened over the time, over the period of that that has prevented stuff like that, or that that be just to, you know, comfort being comfortable or you know, whatever. But for me, it's like can I I'm not saying I'm gonna be the reason why, but can I be a part of the reason why or how we take that next step to become a big player, not just a done the first step, which is you've asked the question.

George: 33:25

Yeah. Okay, so now you need to find the answer. That's what it comes down to. It's like, well, why? Okay, well, why aren't we here? Why aren't we there? Why isn't this at this level? What is it that's missing? And then you start to find the answers, put the clues together, make the calls. And it can be as simple as you know, a bit of dumb luck. You might be out somewhere on a weekend, bump into someone and start talking and go, oh, blah, blah, blah. I've been looking for this, I've got this issue with this build, and I'm trying to find a develop this development site. And you go, oh, hang on, we can help you out with that. Well, we can do this, we can do this, and then you can look at that missing piece, or you might speak to another person in the industry saying, Oh, we're doing this, we've just stepped into this space, we're using this material, and you go, Okay, well, maybe that's what we need to do. And then you can start increasing profits, whatever it might be, a whole range of things. And I think it just starts with the question.

SPEAKER_01: 34:14

Yeah.

unknown: 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

And I think when you when you're in the construction industry and you're on site and you're you're working through a project, it's very easy to let for time to get away from you. Like before you know it, it's the end of the year again. Like we're we're in we're in February now, and I guarantee you, before you know it, we'll be organizing. First quarter will be out. Yeah. And you're like, well, what are we doing now?

Robby: 34:35

Yeah. And that's did you have a long January or a short January? What does that mean? Like some people felt like January went forever. And some people felt like it flew by.

SPEAKER_01: 34:46

No, I reckon it ran quick. You reckon it went quick? Yeah, I reckon it went pretty quick. I've also I thought, yeah, I've also had a very busy January from a personal level as well. With my uh my partner moving from Canada, shout-out Kristen. Um we've just been long time, long time listener. Long time fan of the show. She she's been asking for a shout-out for ages.

Robby: 35:10

Um, yeah, so just make sure you cut that out of the cut that out of the video, guys.

George: 35:15

Tell you what, if if Kristen oh she'll she will watch this one. If she listens to the next episode and tells us the timestamp when we call her out, we'll get her a box of um then George will let us go to Canada whenever you want. Rero case.

SPEAKER_01: 35:30

Um no, so yeah, it's just just been busy from a personal level. So yeah, I think January went pretty quick. So yeah, it's pretty amazing that it's already February, and I'm sure February will fly quick as well. And before you know it, it will be cold, it'll be April and or May. You know what I mean? And that's and I I think yeah, you with years, you're kind of always looking to the next milestone of the year, whether that be the next long weekend or the next wedding that you've got, or and then you're kind of working towards something or a holiday or whatever it is. So, and then before you know it, you come, you these things pass, and you're like, all right, well, now I'm working towards the end of the year, and then I don't know, you're kind of trying to some people would like have a lot to do, others are just kind of looking to close it out, depending on the year they've had, whether that be stressful, whether that be eventful or not, and yeah.

Robby: 36:19

So working from home, huh?

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

No, I wish.

Robby: 36:25

So no changes, no immediate changes at Pascon.

SPEAKER_01: 36:29

Changes that I'm gonna implement.

Robby: 36:31

Yeah. Looking new wrong. Nothing. More pub days. Zero. More pub days. No, but you you could have one, it'd be one more than one more than the last eight years. Um okay, what would you say to someone who's listening who might not have been you know awarded a position like that just yet and they might be working in a role and they're not sure about you know, they felt like you did at the end of 204 2024, you said? Um What would you say to that person? Like, what would you you know, or if you could talk to yourself back then, what would be the message that you would share with yourself? Like, would you say, you know, stick in there?

SPEAKER_01: 37:10

Would you say Um I'd probably ask yourself why? Why not? Like why why were you not chosen? First of all. And then second of all, can you prove to them that they were wrong? Like, can you prove to whoever didn't give you the role that you were going for that you were the right person? So whether that all there's two ways to go about it. You either you either choose to move yourself on and say, well, if I'm not gonna be put in that position, then I'm gonna look elsewhere I I think I can. Like, but I I if you think you're ready for it, go somewhere else. But if you're if you're I guess in my position where you're really tied to the company and had a relationship with it that you weren't quite ready to let go of, then you're like, all right, well, I'll I would say stick it through and prove to that person that you are the right person, and then maybe give yourself a time, a timeline and say, okay, I'm gonna give myself six months or a year, and if I haven't gotten where I want to get to by then, then reassess.

George: 38:19

But and there's another side to that coin as well, is the position that this person could be in. You you might not see a future there, and that's a very probable reason, a probable thing to come up with. As far as you don't get the position, you're never gonna get the position. Or there isn't room for further growth from this point on. So then you need to make that decision of going, well, am I gonna stay in the comfort zone and just continue along this path doing what I'm doing? Um, and you know, still enjoying the process, whatever it might be, but it's got to get to a point where you're gonna turn around and say, Well, I need to explore other opportunities. Now that could be at another another company, another industry, whatever it is, the conversation would then come up in that instance too.

SPEAKER_01: 39:04

Yeah, you've got to be weary of the ceiling, and if they're uh ceiling, or if you know if if there's still room to grow.

George: 39:10

There's a whole range of things that come into play. It could be the work, the the um environment that you're working in. Yeah, some people might love the fact that they can work from home on Mondays and Fridays, and I hear some I hear there's some fucking far out companies that do shit like that. Wild. Um, you know, work from home like doing that on a Monday and Friday. Or you go, no, no, fuck it. I'm gonna go and work at this other company. I'm gonna work every day, but I'm gonna get paid this much more, or I'm gonna get these bonuses, whatever it is, or I'm gonna get that role or that position. What would it take? Whatever it is for to work from home?

Robby: 39:48

Yeah, what would it take? Let's just let's just open up the conversation just as it's like we'd we just started.

SPEAKER_01: 39:53

Why is it such a sensitive topic? Is it a real George?

Robby: 39:56

It seems very it's like someone said work from home once and he was upset.

SPEAKER_01: 39:59

I got upset the whole time. Scarred by COVID. Yeah, because I'd be answering the phone and I'd be like mid-team deathmatch.

Robby: 40:07

Yeah, what would you be like? It just means you're gonna come back and up, hey, make it work hard.

SPEAKER_01: 40:11

Yeah, I'd be like, hey, I make a quick I'm gonna go 30 seconds of pause here.

Robby: 40:14

Yeah. You can't pause in team deathmatch. Um, but there's nothing wrong with that. You know, if he wants to spend his lunch break on COD, he's gonna be happier for it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:23

No, look, I think there's a look, I I've I've done there have been times where I've worked from home, obviously. I'm not there's not gonna be, you know, but there it's not like we're just not a company that you're at least I've heard about it.

George: 40:34

Not look, I don't mind. I I know for yourself, it doesn't actually bother me. I don't I think there's a concern I think there's certain people that are thinking there's a concern when there's a demand for it. Yeah, but that's also look, even myself, right? I know that when I'm home, I'm less productive. I could like you said, I live 150 meters away, 200 meters away from home. I could easily have a home office, work from there. I will be more productive here. That's me personally.

Robby: 40:59

So the re I'll tell you the reason for that?

George: 41:00

Yeah, yeah, people in your house. I have things in my house. I have food, I have fucking a dog. There's a thing with here. Yeah, but I have my dog, I have a PlayStation, I have, oh, I better mow the lawn, I gotta fucking hang out the clothes, I get a call from the missus.

Robby: 41:16

Hey, can you being able to do the washing while you're working is the greatest thing in the world.

George: 41:19

Can you do hey?

Robby: 41:20

Look, there are some great benefits.

SPEAKER_01: 41:22

There's some fucking great benefits. It's like not stuck in traffic. What do I have a wife for?

SPEAKER_02: 41:25

Hey, I said that's what I have on the way.

SPEAKER_01: 41:27

Not stuck in traffic on the way home. The only reason lose an hour there, go to the gym earlier, make dinner earlier.

George: 41:33

This is what I'm saying. I think it's human nature to take the path of least resistance in most of these instances. And it's uh I don't think everyone is built to work from home. I think some people can. I don't think everyone is. And I just don't, I don't it's the unknown. I don't know if the productivity is as great there or if it is good here.

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

And the times that I have worked from home, whether that be remotely on laptop, whatever, um, I've actually found there have been times where I've worked done more work than I've done here. The only reason being is to because you work later? No, is because I feel like shit, I don't want George to think I'm doing nothing. I see, but I don't think that. No, I know. I'm not saying that. I think that. So I mean, I mean I'm not I'm not saying you do, but it's like it's like it's like a it's like a subconscious thing. It's like fuck, George's probably thinking I'm doing fuck all because I'm working from home, but I'm gonna show him that I'm not. So I'll you know, I'll do this, I'll send these emails, I'll write this, just go up and send it off. I'll do these uh invoices. Probably the only thing I can't do at home is invoicing.

Robby: 42:35

Yes, schedule an email for 7:30. I just feel like cool 70, I think I'm working.

SPEAKER_01: 42:41

I would um yeah, invoicing is probably the only thing that I can't do from home because you it's it involves a stack and a stamp and you've got to sign it and whatever. You can do it, you can bring it home, do it, and then bring it back to the office, but it's not something you can just constantly do. But I yeah, I I think there are times where it's more I'm more productive being from home when I'm traveling around during the day. So if I have to go to site in the morning in Glen Waverly, like yesterday, for example, I had a I went to site in the morning in Glen Waverly, then a meeting that I was meant to have got changed to three o'clock, and then I from I was at Glen Waverly till 11. I wasn't then gonna drive to Alba Park to work for two hours and then drive back to a 3 p.m. meeting in Glen Waverley. Like that doesn't make sense to me.

George: 43:26

You'd lose too much time on the road, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:28

And yeah. So there were instances. Oh, absolutely.

George: 43:32

There's no doubt, there's no doubt, especially in that when you're on that, um, when you're on across multiple projects on a day or whatever it might be. Yeah, absolutely. Even if you go to a cafe and you pull out your laptop, it's the same sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01: 43:44

Um but why are you so anti work from home apart from so you think that you're more productive in the office?

George: 43:51

Yeah, and it's also if I want, I I I like having people here. It's like I had a PA once. You did you you met that first PA I had? Jade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've tried not to use names, but thanks. Do you want to give a tax file number as well? Shadow, number and everything. Um yeah, she she came in and I was very clear with the role and what I expected and and not working from like I wanted someone there when I needed them then. Then she came in one day saying, Oh, I want to work from home, I want laptops, I want this, I want blah blah blah blah blah. And then that Saturday morning, then literally the next morning I called her up and fired her. But that was my expectation. Like, I want someone here when I want them here, I want them to do things, I want here, process that, do that, call that, do that, and so on and so forth. There is it can be done at home, as you said. I don't know if it's as efficient, and I still am stuck in my ways. I think people will still work better from here. Yeah, I I I think As a rule of thumb, I know that's generalizing and sure there are people that can do stuff um outside of that. Like, put it this way: Nick, uh a supervisor could never work from home. No, obviously. So a bricklayer is never going to work from home. No, you know. Um what? Well, I'm just saying, like, okay, so now let's just say from a cultural point of view, he's like, oh, fuck this Simon guy gets to work from home every day and I have to be on site. It's freezing, it's hot. This is your job. You should live in a bricklayer.

SPEAKER_02: 45:15

It's a jumble. I get that.

Robby: 45:16

Yeah, but like, yeah. It's like saying, so they we so they don't get to use computers, so you shouldn't use computers.

SPEAKER_01: 45:24

Yeah, generations have changed as well. You're you're thoughting it you're when you're sure there is. When you were growing up, that wasn't even a thing.

Robby: 45:31

Like now they use a hammer, so we shouldn't use pens, we should use hammers too and fucking chisel on the bricks. Yeah, no either. Like you can't think like that.

SPEAKER_01: 45:38

Yeah, yeah. No, I yeah. Fight me. No. I win if we get time to get to work from a yeah, it already does just like him.

SPEAKER_02: 45:48

You better win. Oh, yeah. You're my you're not training. I have. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for noticing. That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me.

SPEAKER_01: 45:54

Um I didn't mean it. Take it back, take it back. You fucking hobo. I think you can gauge from someone's personality whether they'd be good working from home or not, pretty quickly.

Robby: 46:04

Yeah, they probably use that element too. Yeah, I I also think you need to have the correct measures in place to make sure that people aren't doing nothing. Yeah, that's right. You if you do it and you just hope to God that they're gonna work, well then you're probably gonna find out some people are not gonna work. Yeah. But if you do it and you have the correct measures in place where if you don't do the work, I'm gonna know because there's work to be done. And if this isn't done by the end of the day, then I there's gonna be a way for me to notice. Yeah, that's different.

SPEAKER_01: 46:28

Well, you say it's accountability, right? You say that you're worried people won't be as productive from home. Okay, I was gonna say we've had site managers that have been very unproductive on site. Yeah, of course.

George: 46:41

And that changed that had to change.

SPEAKER_01: 46:42

Oh, I you didn't know none of the wiser.

George: 46:45

Yeah, that's right. Well, I it came to fruition. Came to fruit eventually because yeah, because you see the lack of the work. But yeah, you see the lack of progress or you see people saying things, yeah. All right, same thing.

Robby: 46:55

Same thing. Yeah, I'd have what happened the other way around.

SPEAKER_01: 46:57

Yeah, yeah, but it's it's it's sort of like the site is almost like their home because it is their own sanctuary. There's no one.

George: 47:05

That's why it's so important to have someone that you that you trust to do that. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like, and we've got that. We've got the people there that we trust that will do the job. Yeah. Um, whereas I think I know I know the scenario you're talking about from even back in COVID. And it's like you you certain people stopped working here and you're like, Well, what the fuck did they actually do? And you're like, hang on, what's this? What's this? What's this? Why is why is there a fucking hammock there? Do you know what I mean? It's like so you what are you just chilling out? Games downloaded on the work laptop. Exactly. Like, and then it's like this is ridiculous, yeah. Um, but yeah, you you bang on with that. It's but you've got to have those processes in place to be able to check it.

SPEAKER_01: 47:40

Yeah, and I think that was that was a long time ago, and things have changed since then. But it's I I think all going back to my point is you don't I I think there's a bad connotation from with working from home. It's just because you're working from home doesn't mean you're unproductive because you can be unproductive working in the office. I come here and put my head on the table for eight hours and then go home and dawdle and pretend to be sitting at your desk and go for a yeah, go for a long lunch break or go for a walk or just write a few emails, watch YouTube. How are you gonna know? I'm but I'm here, you know? Or I could be at home and doing a lot more, but it seems like I'm doing less because the connotation of oh, he's working from home, he must be doing fuck all is just kind of there.

Robby: 48:21

So Yeah, but you do it too. What? If I come in on a Friday, you said, Oh, you're working today, I thought you guys don't work Fridays. I'm like, come on, mate. Come with it. Yeah, I'm never gonna win with that agile. I'll not work for you. I'm just here, just a little pen at home. Yeah, yeah. Um all right, in saying that we're live on the air now. Just now do you want to ask for any annual leave or anything?

George: 48:47

Reject it.

Robby: 48:47

George on the side sickly I don't even have any holidays.

George: 48:50

Well, look, the idea is that I you don't need to eventually, you know? Just do shit, just stop talking to me. Only talk to me about cool shit. Like cars and what you did on the weekend. Like uh the intent would be one day, say, okay, high level in five years' time, I don't want to be on the org chart. All right, which means you're driving everything, you're hiring, you're firing, you're paying, you're doing all that sort of shit. Because look, that at that stage it'll be 15 years doing this, like things have to change. That's what it is. You know, as far as you're saying what's going to get us to 40 mil, it's things have to be done differently. The things that we've been doing for 10 years can't be the things we're going to do for the next five.

Robby: 49:34

What got you here won't get you there.

George: 49:36

Yeah, it's exactly that. And you look at that, man. It's nearly nearly 10 years for you. It is for me. It's more for me. I've been doing this since I was fucking 21. And it's like, well, what have we been doing all this time? I look at even when I was back at BuildSept, very similar structure as far as far as how the business is operating and what we're doing. And it's like, well, what's changed? Delivering projects, winning projects, winning projects, delivering projects, arguing with subbies, punching on with clients, or winning with clients, or whatever it's going to be. Yeah. It's that same thing. So what has to be different? What needs to change? Is it now we're going to start looking at the 3D printed homes?

SPEAKER_01: 50:14

You know, as silly as that sounds. The thing is, I think that's great. All these ideas and all these things that we want to do and want to get it only you only get there by putting your time and energy towards it.

George: 50:28

But that's what that's what it takes sometimes. It might mean as the person running the ship or whatever it is, when everyone's doing other stuff, you're going, no, no, I'm going to research this or this Saturday. What are you doing this Saturday? I'm fucking going to go see this. I'm going to go meet the guy from Tesla because Optimists are bringing, he's bringing they're bringing the Optimus robots in.

SPEAKER_01: 50:48

There are elements of that, but I'm talking, say, let's just assume it's during work hours for now, right? If if I'm as a G as a GM and if I'm committing my seven to five doing things that maybe a site manager should be doing, then I can't do the things that a GM should be doing.

George: 51:07

So does that make it better look at your hourly rate as the time the value of your time is worth? And this is where I'm massive on it. Like uh, you know, my old man was m was always huge on this. And he'd be like, he'd call me up and he'd say, What's who's the fucking what which tiles do we need for the job? Like, where who's the tile? What tiles do I need to buy? Where do I get the tiles from? And even though I knew the answer, I knew it. It was there, or I knew it off by heart, I knew who the supplier was, I knew who the contact was. I'd say, Why are you talking to me? I say, Call Simon. That's Simon's job. He's the CA. Like get him, I ask him, and then eventually he'd stop calling me and he would call you. He goes, Hey, where are the tiles from? You're like, Yep, cool, it's here. I'll book them for Friday. Yeah. And that would happen.

SPEAKER_01: 51:52

Yeah.

George: 51:52

So the same thing's gonna need to happen with you now. Like, even it happened the other day. Nick called me and he's like, Hey, what are we gonna do with this? He knows I know the answer. I said, do that. Like I told him in this instance, but it was like, you got to give people the freedom, A, to be able to make a call on certain things. But um, it's also a matter of going through the right channels and use using your time that is the most efficient. Okay, now if that means you have to get the supervisor or a leading hand or someone to do something for you, so you can be here in the office or you can be meeting a client or go for that coffee or whatever it is that's gonna grow the business, that's where you've got to start thinking about the value of your time to the business. Because if you have a target as the GM for Pascon to make$40 million, then you've got to work backwards from that. You've seen me do it, I'm pretty sure you've seen me do the hourly rate at a builder summit. All right. So you just sort of go, well, I want to make 40 mil. I want to work this many hours a week or this many weeks, this many hours a week, and then you figure out, well, to make 40 mil, my hourly rate is$12,443.15 per hour. So then you look at that going, okay, if that's what an hour of my time is worth, is it worth me processing an invoice right now? Yeah. Or should I get Renee to, or should I teach Renee, hey, this is how you enter subcontractor invoices. Whatever it is. So when you can start thinking like that, that should that will definitely help you in that in your roles, uh, in that role. And then elaborate and execute.

Robby: 53:31

Yeah, I also think if that's your um go back to what you said, if that's your five-year plan, I think you should have a rollout period. Do you know what I mean? Like if this is year one of the five-year plan, you're like, five years? Don't call me.

SPEAKER_04: 53:44

Yeah.

Robby: 53:45

Year one should encapsulate, okay, I need to be doing this, this, and this.

George: 53:49

Yeah, and I think that's probably something we'll sit down and do in the near future. Yeah. Yeah. Whether we go for a dinner or whether we just have one, have a pizza night here and just go well. Have a glend because I'm shredding. Have a glend of night. Have a glend. Oh shit, Glenda's.

SPEAKER_02: 54:02

Change their life special. Can I can I come?

George: 54:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 54:04

Who's you're the marketing guru? Yeah, Jimmy, listen, listen then.

SPEAKER_01: 54:08

I need someone to have a have some prawn with me because he can't. The prawn dumpling. He can. Might die. He just doesn't know. Um, yeah, and I think uh but by going back to what I said, it's easy to lose track of time when you're busy about something else, and always saying, uh, and I think I I've heard you say this a lot over the years is let's just get through this. Let's just get through this. And then this never kind of ends, it's always a different this. Yep, that's what I'm saying. It's saying it's win a job, deliver a job, win a job, deliver a job.

George: 54:36

And it's like you fall into that habit. You fall into the habit, and then before you know it, it's 2027. I think great jobs, like you're making good money, like you'd you're successful in that in that process, but it's like, well, what's gonna get us to be like Gurner? Yeah, exactly. And have the crane and we're no longer building, we're employing builders, exactly, whatever it might be, if that's the path you want to go.

SPEAKER_01: 54:56

Because I guarantee you are you the builder with the crane. I guarantee Tim Gurner isn't writing, isn't S doing S doing takeoffs on tiles and yeah, but there's different there's different levels to it, exactly right.

George: 55:07

You're you're bang on, and that's what you have to think of. It's saying, well, what am I doing today that I shouldn't be doing, and what do I need to be doing?

SPEAKER_01: 55:15

Yeah.

George: 55:17

Yeah. Because when you can start thinking about things like that, it it just changes everything, man. Like it's why I do what I do, it's why I do the event stuff, it's why I think uh go and meet like I'm going, I told you on the walk today, I'm going to Adelaide next month for a potential business venture and to expand and become a national company. Now we can do that because we got the systems and the processes there. Now, this might be nothing. We actually going back again, we're talking about this developer that's gotten in touch with us that wants to do$20 million a quarter. And it's like, man, every year I get that person that calls me and says, Hey, I want to build$15 million worth of work, I want to do this, I want to do it. Every year, someone comes up, it's not once landed. They're like, Oh, we want to get you to do this, we want you to do all these projects, we're gonna make so me and you are gonna make so much money, it's gonna be great. Champagne will fall from the ceilings, and it's like never comes to fruition. But one day, one of those guys, I'm sure, is gonna land. But if I don't, if we don't put ourselves in those rooms, if you don't put yourself in that position, it's never gonna land. Yeah, so you just gotta give it a crack and uh and always pushing yourself to try and become more and do more.

SPEAKER_01: 56:26

Yeah, and it's just getting yourself out there, really, to just kind of to show them why you over that person. Like what did someone like Tim Gurner do that was that set him apart from us and he bought a gym. Huh?

Robby: 56:43

He bought a gym.

SPEAKER_01: 56:45

Yeah, right.

Robby: 56:46

True story. Did you know that?

George: 56:48

You've thought you've said it.

Robby: 56:49

Yeah, he bought a gym when he was 19 years old. He went and bought a gym, and I'm pretty sure he almost went bust. And then he sold the gym, and then he did a whole bunch of stuff, and he had the whole thing financed. He didn't have money. You know he's not that old, yeah? He's like 40.

SPEAKER_01: 57:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robby: 57:04

He's pretty young. George is older than him. No, I think he's the same age. Um yeah, it's uh an inspiring story worth looking into. Because he they're doing$300 million builds.

SPEAKER_01: 57:18

Yeah. My mate works for them. Does he? He works for uh St. Haven. Yeah. He's their like um account, he's in their accounts. Don't know what his yeah, so I don't know. Account manager. So he's he's he's told me about like how much they're sort of turning over and where they're looking to build. They're looking to go international, open up in St.

Robby: 57:40

Haven or St. Haven.

SPEAKER_01: 57:41

So he basically sick sick by the way. He looks at all the membership tallies, how much the constructions cost and how much the things are, you know, where they're looking to go next and what what they're um they're looking to be, where they're looking to be in two years. Like they have all these, or they have set plans, like by this time in five years, we're gonna have we're gonna have New York, Chicago, and LA. You know, this time in three years, we're gonna have Dubai.

Robby: 58:06

Yeah, he's on route to be a bird. Like that, and that's I think that's I think that's because for someone who didn't get it, like it wasn't, it wasn't handed down to him because he was just hungry.

SPEAKER_01: 58:16

But something, yeah, but so there's something there's something inside him that makes him think like that. What sets that what what what does if he can, why can't anyone else? You know what I mean? Like what makes him what sets him apart? Um so success leaves clues, yeah. And when you've got someone who's got a five-year plan of okay, let's not build$10 million homes in Melbourne. It's I want to build a$20 million gym in Dubai that has a a yearly membership of up$200,000 per membership because that's the market. It's like well, what makes you want to what makes you be that how why are you that ambitious? Like, what has made you say, okay, I'm gonna take I'm gonna go that deep, like that's deep.

Robby: 58:57

Because he thinks he believes he can. Yeah. And most people don't believe they can. I instantly had that thought in my head just then. I was like, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01: 59:05

Yeah, it might it might not even be the belief, it might just be the sphere is involved. It's too much. But you just said he financed the whole gym and it went to shit. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure. What 19? It was like 19, dude. I was working at Oakley as a as a waiter at 19. I was like, I was like, this is a tough job. Yeah, it's a tough job. Saying this is the worst thing I've ever done in my life. This guy's financing a gym and going bust. And I'm like, I don't even know what financing was when I was 19. You know? Um credit to him.

George: 59:35

Yeah, that's it. He probably didn't finish your 12. So, one thing actually I haven't mentioned to you, but I'm gonna mention it to you now, where I think you need to improve on.

Robby: 59:45

That's right, yeah. This is this is actually, we're not recording. This is your performance present.

George: 59:50

Um, he waited, he waited for the cameras to be turned on for him to tell me this. No, no, it's not that's nothing. That's about anger man. I actually reckon you need to start developing your own personal brand a bit more. Yeah, you have mentioned that before. I don't know how to do that. It's simple. You just go on podcasts, go on podcasts. It's day one of your personal brand right now. I'll be on Joe Rogan's in a couple of weeks. You watch. Good, good. Do it. Yeah, that'll do wonders for your personal brand. The reason I say that is people buy from people. Do you know what I mean? And it's all good and fine to have your personal account where you want to post whatever photos of your cat, your dog, yourself topless on the beach, whatever it is. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:27

I'm talking about Instagram pages like that.

George: 1:00:30

The thing you need to look at is people wanting to people building a connection with you to go, okay, this is the type of person we will do business with. You look at all the huge companies in the world that have a, you know, a prominent founder, they often have significantly more followers and engagement through their personal brand than what they do, the business brand. And that's human nature because people buy from people, people want to connect with people. You know, Pascal, as much as you might love it or I love it, or whatever it is, people don't get as excited about that. They get excited about the actual individual and the person. It's like, you know, when we do events, we're we often get people coming up to us saying, Oh man, I listen to all your podcasts. We we love it. I can't believe I'm actually meeting you. It's like, hang on. What why, why is that level of fandom there? It's because we're building a connection with the audience and we've never even met them before, and they trust us as far as the podcast goes and the knowledge and the shit that we're bringing them. But then, even from a construction point of view, when I go out and talk about construction, I'm a person of authority. And if you can become that too, I think it'll be great for you from a professional point of view, um, a connection point of view, even trades. Like you get trades that go, oh man, I get heaps of people trades. I listen to today, the cabinet maker that came through. What do you say today? I think you were in the room. And he goes, Oh man, I listen to all your stuff. I watch all your videos. This is a trade. He respects me just for who I am and what I'm doing. And I've never gone out there to create content so he could respect me or he could want to do that. So I think that'll be a powerful thing for you to do over the years. And it can start with even, you know, you can post an article on LinkedIn saying, hey, this is we've done a couple of projects with like age steel. I still prefer timber, but here are the benefits of each. And you start to become that authority, you start to become that person to go to and to do business with. Yeah. So I think that's be something you could work on over the next um, you know, next 12 months.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:26

Yeah. And I I think so too. I just don't know how to I don't really know where to where to I don't know. I think one thing that you're good at is you don't care what people think. Yeah, that's true. I have a sense of oh, what if people bag me for that or whatever? You will you'll get that though. You'll get that.

George: 1:02:44

I yeah, I care too much. It starts off with your friends and family. Oh, look at the fucking movie star, hot shot, uh new GM at Pascal. You know, you'll get that. My my my family used to always do that. I'd go into a into the um a family barbecue of some sort. They were like, oh, yeah, they're like, Pass us, all I see is your face on fucking social media. I'm like, unfollow me. Okay, you don't buy my shit anyway. Like, I don't do it for you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:10

Yeah, and now you're an ambassador for C do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:12

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:14

Shout out to C do for sponsoring this episode. Um, yeah, no, I reckon Yeah.

George: 1:03:23

I've got a guy that does videos as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:24

I haven't thought about doing that this year. You just try you're just trying to get in business, aren't you?

Robby: 1:03:28

Yeah, sign up. I don't have any, I don't have any money for it. We're not even recording. Send the invoice to pass button. Um, yeah, I think that's important. I think you should also look at, if I may add to what you're saying, personal development. Yes. Like like real personal. It sounds wanky, it sounds shit, it'll change your life.

George: 1:03:47

It will. I can safely say. Yeah. Like what? Like Sansoni. No, no, like just no. No, don't do that.

Robby: 1:03:54

No, no, like actual like dude, and when I say personal development, I don't mean go do a fucking three-day course. That might be it. You might do a three-day course and you're like, this is fucking I learned some things here and it changed my life. But you might also go and read a book and that changed your life. Or you might listen to a particular podcast, or you might make it uh like I've made it purposeful this year. Every single morning when I come in, I read 10 pages, at least. Every single morning. Like it'll take 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:20

Yeah, it doesn't take long at all.

Robby: 1:04:21

It's not too long at all. And you like it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:22

I was telling you George, I bought a book in December. I haven't opened it. It's just sitting there. It's nothing about personal development, it's purely uh it's no, it's called The Odyssey, it's by Stephen King.

Robby: 1:04:34

Yeah, look.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:35

I think that's uh that's not reading, so yeah. You can read, but it's cool, but like you know, you might as well read it. I haven't, I don't think I've I don't think I've read a full book for a good 15 years. Yeah, cool. And I've read my first book when I was 20. I'd love to read my, I would love to keep reading. I'd love to start reading. Um, I just yeah, I just like you like PlayStation more. Even that I played it last night for half an hour was great after four months.

George: 1:04:58

But what but yeah, you he's bang on. Like I reckon looking, you used to always say how I would handle myself in stressful situations. You're like, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:09

I don't, I still don't know how you do it. I still don't know. I I get stressed, and it's not even it's like it's not my company, it's not my money, and I'll get I feel like sometimes I'm more stressed than you are.

George: 1:05:18

Yeah. There's it's there's not a level, it's the stress is always there, it doesn't go away. It actually you just be get better at handling it. And the fact that we've done so we've pretty much done everything the same. He's done a little bit more with Tony Robbins and whatnot, but my ability to handle difficult situations and people and things and and times in my life is because I've gone through that personal development, professional development, and become better at being a human being and handling things. Because I promise you, had I not, honestly, hand on heart, had I not done half the stuff I've done and continue to do, mind you, had I not done it, I think there would be a probable I think I'd would have had a breakdown. I genuinely say that hand on heart. I reckon if I didn't have the personal development and training that I had done over the last five, six years, I I think I would have I don't think I'd be depressed. Although there's probably levels of it where you don't even know you are. But I don't think I would have that level of sitting in a corner and crying and feeling sorry for myself and the world is over. But I think I would have experienced some sort of a fuck, this is like overwhelming sensation, panic attack, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:28

Like a crisis. Almost like a speed live crisis in a sense, if you want to call it.

George: 1:06:32

I just reckon, no, not even that. No, it's never been a matter of finding myself or anything like that. I haven't had that. I'm just talking the sheer pressure of shit that's happened over the years. I would have, it would have probably broken me more so. I might have given up in certain aspects. But you know, having gone through that PD process, I think it's massive. It's massive. And as I said, you build character just from owning the business or running a business. You know, the two IC at Apple, like huge pressure. The two IC at Amazon and all these big companies, they're not the owners, but they're fucking just they're under probably just even more pressure. So it's uh it's definitely something that you'll bang on with for sure.

Robby: 1:07:11

Yeah, and I think um you said you were proud of the person you'd become just from the work. You'd be even more proud of the person you become from the work you didn't have to do but chose to. You know what I mean? It wasn't forced upon you, but you purposefully went out and and it's like cool. I got made by this stuff that was forced on me, but I got made even more by the stuff I chose to do. Do you know what I mean? Um easier said than done as well. There's a real stigma, like a sense of wankiness.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:37

No, there is. I remember I remember the first time you brought me to a Santoni event, and I thought you I think you were still, I don't like you were still affiliated with it from a sense of whatever. But um I remember after it, I went to my went and met my mates at a pub, and they're like, oh, there he is.

George: 1:07:58

Yeah, how much shit were they giving me?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:59

Mr. Fucking inspiration over here. You um are you brainwashed yet? Like, did you get you know? And I think that that there is a stigma around some of these guys and some of these sort of speakers and influencers that they're just there to brainwash you. And I think where there are certain people, I I don't know, I think I'm maybe too stubborn with probably some of them are as well. I think there's like you need to be careful who there's a stigma around this guy's just trying to brainwash you so he can earn a dollar, a lot of dollars, and a lot of people like Tony Robbins that you mentioned, and uh good.

Robby: 1:08:31

If anyone thinks Tony Robbins still does this at 67 years old and he's almost a billionaire and he's going and doing free is a billionaire. If you think he's doing it to get a dollar from you, you're autistic. Right. Like you you must not you, like talking to someone else. You looked at me like you're autistic. What's he doing? Um I don't know what it is. Like free events and stuff, like helping people. Oh, is he doing it? Yeah, he did.

George: 1:08:55

Like if you think at this point declined, or is he man? He's fed, like I was listening to the podcast the other day, he's fed like hundreds of millions of people, like given his meals, yeah. Like these are all things someone of his caliber doesn't have to do.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:08

Yeah, you know, but he's fed a hundred people. I don't know whether they're good or I don't know whether But I guarantee you there is people who's good or bad.

Robby: 1:09:14

Gary Cardone's a horrible human. Nah, he's not GC 10X.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:19

Get him on the podcast. I don't know, I I don't know how how to differentiate between the ones that are there for themselves and the ones that they're not. You know, you know, but it doesn't matter. You fucking go in and one stand here and one teachers, yeah. Okay, you say Tony Robbins has fed millions of people. I genuinely don't believe people can be that kind-hearted that they want everyone to be a millionaire. That's because you you've got that cynic view of it. Yeah, I do. I probably do. I think people everyone there's always a sense of people in it for themselves.

George: 1:09:45

Put it this way we we've gone through and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars, and some stuff will tell you that I wouldn't do like that wasn't great. But this you learn every step of the way, even connections with people. Like, had I not done half the Sansoni stuff, I wouldn't have done half of the other stuff or met half the other people. You wouldn't have met Robbie. Also, yeah, absolutely fucking bang on. Like, we would not be sitting here doing this podcast right now if it wasn't for what we did. So arguably, whatever I invested in the training, whatever I did, I got stuff out of it, and I say, Yep, cool, absolutely. I we wouldn't be sitting here, and this is a venture that could be hundreds of millions of dollars. Make no mistake, like the the did I say could? Yeah, can't believe. I'm gonna throw up. Um, but hey, uh Stephen Bartlett, Joe Rogan, all these guys started off with zero subscribers, with zero followers, with no one even knowing who the fuck they were. Stephen Bartlett did that post a while ago that said um he surpassed uh, what is it, three billion downloads. Three billion downloads of his podcast. And he put the post up and he goes, but that's not what this is about. This post is actually about no one talks about the three years, three whole years of doing a podcast where we got 12,000 downloads over three years. Because no one talks about that. They only talk about the last five years when we've exploded and now everyone knows who we are and what we do and all that sort of stuff. But no one's called three straight years of our podcast day in, day out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:12

And that's what I've got to do with a podcast with my mates, but we always joke about it. I go, man, the things we talk about over a over a coffee, we should have a podcast. Yep, but we'd get cancelled.

George: 1:11:24

You know what? I'll tell you a lot of people hating us and we get cancelled real quick. Yeah, well, you look at what is it, fresh and um fresh and fit, like they'll say ridiculous things and like hugely famous, hugely popular, whatever it might be. It's as silly as you here's what separates honestly, what it comes down to, this is what separates people that win and people that lose. All right. It's a simple, simple thing. It's action. It's people will talk about it, people will judge, people will fucking point fingers and do everything that's under the sun except the one thing they should do. That's what separates winners from losers, man. It's people that take fucking action in their life. That's it. That is the one determined, like make the decision. Oh, you start a part class. All right, go buy a podcast kit. We bought he called me up. Do you want to do a podcast? Fuck an oath.

unknown: 1:12:14

Right?

George: 1:12:14

Went that weekend. Two weeks. No, yeah, we'll rent it. You'll rent it. You can hire it. You can hire it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:19

Yeah, absolutely. I'll just come in one night when no one's in bed.

George: 1:12:23

Don't know how to use it. Um, but that's the thing, right? You've just got to take the action, and that's even the the whole backing yourself because you're gonna go and invest money in this. It's it's a waste of money if you go there, invest the money just to feel good. All right, I'll give you go get a massage, you'll feel good. But if you go there, you're now accountable to yourself.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:44

Yeah, I guess paying, I'm gonna get this out of it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:47

I guess going back to what I was saying of oh yeah, me and my mates were thought about it. It was like, okay, well, why? So we can have a laugh.

George: 1:12:53

Yeah, like absolutely it could be your personal brand, but that's the start of a personal brand. We've got over 120 hours of videos, like you saying, he could we could post six times a day for the next year, yeah, but different videos as well, like everything different, and still have content for fucking years. That's that's the advantage of what you're doing, and I I guarantee it. You know, okay, you mentioned before your C-Doo sponsoring me. I put up most of the content I put out is construction related, business related. I put out over the holidays two or three videos that got millions of views and hundreds of thousands of views. What's to say C-Doo don't call me up and say, hey, we want to like we'll give you a ski, start making more content. As stupid as that sounds. Not only that, use our discount code, we'll pay you ten thousand dollars a month to actually take your ski out and create content because you're gonna influence more people to buy a C do on my personal page than what we are when we go and spend five million dollars on Facebook ads. Now, you could look at that and go, all right, well, I'm but I'm a builder, why not have the best of both worlds? You could be in construction, but then you can also be like, hey, we're gonna talk about you love the soccer, all right, the Premier League. You could go and do a podcast on that and just talk about you know Man You or talk about whoever.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:13

There's this guy that I listen to pretty much every day of my life. Um, it's so it's this YouTube channel called the United Stand, right? And basically it's this guy who goes who has an alias. His alias is Mark Goldbridge, but his actual name is oh, what's his actual name? I don't even know his actual name.

George: 1:14:33

Harrison.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:34

I do know his actual name, I've just forgotten it. Anyway, say his name is Harrison. Peter Smith, whatever. Harrison Smith. No one knows him as Harrison Smith. Everyone knows him as Mark Goldbridge. People in the media, I'm talking Sky Sports, will address him as Mark Goldbridge. They won't address him as his actual name because no one knows him as his actual name. Everyone knows him as Mark. Also, he started off a channel where he had like he used to do one a week video on a Sunday where he would kind of react to the week and he had like 10 people watching. That was in 20, 2015, I think it was. He started, and he just celebrated his 10 years of he now. He makes they have a channel, they post three, he goes live every day twice a day, and then they have a video in the middle of the day. Um, and then they also he does watch-alongs for games, he does transfer deadline day streams, he does yeah, all this stuff, and now he's got 2.3 million subscribers, which is insane. Like it's like, and I remember during COVID, I was thinking it's like there's no there's no Australian that's done doing any of this. Like, there's no Australian that I I wake up and probably watch every single Man United game there is to watch. Why can't I be the Australian Mark Albridge? Yeah, bang on. But then I was like, nah, I can't do that.

George: 1:15:59

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I'm telling you, man, it's amazing the opportunities that can open up for you professionally, personally, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:06

He just started off as a fan who just made videos because he wanted to make videos and he started doing it at like 35, yeah, 33 or something. Oh no, yeah, 33.

George: 1:16:17

And um that's what I mean. You just don't know. And even like just go from a professional route. What if you create that video that who knows, man? The the prime minister sees and he's like, Hey, you know what? I want you to upgrade Parliament House. I want you to build curability home or whatever it might be. But you know, KSI. Yeah, yeah. That YouTube asked his questions.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:35

I don't I'm Kuz, you know. KSI, so he KSI I'm good friends with him. Obviously, for those who don't know KSI, then get out from under the rock you're living in. But that fucking well known Jesus. Okay, relax, man. I wouldn't, I haven't, okay, in all honesty. You know who Logan Paul is? Yeah. Okay, he's they're on the same level as Sandy. Logan Paul's probably still as higher, but I would say 100% they both own Prime. Yeah, okay. But I didn't know who this bloke was until KSI. I used to follow KSI when I was literally a 15-year-old playing FIFA with my mate, and we would we would watch his videos and he would literally just have a webcam on him and he and he'd be playing FIFA, yeah, and everyone would be reacting to his anger when conceding a goal, his celebration when and then when scoring, and then he'd play a scary games with his with his brother where he'd sit there and he'd just it was all emotion, and people got really invested in that. And then, but I I never thought I look at someone like that, and I think you would never think that 10-15 years later, this bloke is a billionaire, and he's got a whole energy drink line, yeah.

George: 1:17:46

Action, yeah, action man. He he he he filmed himself, he filmed himself, but we had to be 16. So it's fine, but he's still gone out there. Yeah, but I've played video games when I was 16. I never recorded myself. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:00

Could have been and I I went through a few FIFA controllers, uh, PlayStation controllers, trust me. I'd uh asked my mates.

Robby: 1:18:07

Me, yeah. But I I feel like I just missed out on the e-games. What do you mean? What's it called?

George: 1:18:12

EA esports, esports, yeah. EA Sports. No, no, no. They game. Yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um esports, I think it is esports. Esports, something like that. Oh, you're that good.

Robby: 1:18:22

Yeah, I reckon I would have done alright. I've only ever met one person. Ask your mate, Chris Fitz, schooled him once. Ask um I've only met one person in my whole life. Schooled him in his bedroom, by the way. Yeah, he's told during a workday. He's told me.

George: 1:18:36

Uh work from home. Work from home. You fucking see what I'm talking about?

Robby: 1:18:39

He lived across the road from the office. Um anyway, uh I used to play FIFA day and night. It's all I used to do. And I feel like if it went so like if it came out while I was still playing, I stopped playing when I got a job and blah blah blah. Like you get busy, right? Uh, but I feel like if all that took off while I was still playing, I feel like I would have turned it would have turned into something for me. Like I was, I I'd never met, I'd met one person in real life that had beat me. Everyone else, old school. They would I wasn't, I'd go see my mates, I wasn't allowed to play.

George: 1:19:08

Do you reckon you could pick up a remote now and just have a fair night? I reckon I'll be alright. I'd be alright. Uh let's get a PlayStation in the office. Let's fucking go. I will I'm fucking we should there you go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:19

First action of GM. I'm gonna buy a cup of I'm gonna booze ball tape, we'll make it fun. Company people there's no fun. So much fun. There's no fun.

Robby: 1:19:28

Um there's just yeah, I feel like I'm slave labor. I missed that uh window. No, I don't think you've missed it. Jump on now. No, you can't now, you've got to commit time. These kids play for hours and hours on end. That's it. I would have to quit my everything else. Stop reading. I read for like 10 minutes.

George: 1:19:45

All right, well, future's bright. I'm feeling good about the decision, I'm feeling good about the direction, and I reckon we're gonna create some pretty magical shit at PASCON and people will be talking about it for the years to come, and they can always reference back to this particular episode because obviously everyone's gonna be subscribed, and if you're not subscribed, you can do that now, especially with all the new the new supporter base we're gonna get after this episode drops on Monday. All of Simon's family, friends, and uh fans, raging fans, because he's day one of his personal brand. So, where can people find you if they want to look out for you and try and connect with you now, Simon? Because you're huge on your personal brand.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:30

Yeah, I'll have to build my personal brand and they'll be able to find it.

George: 1:20:32

I suppose LinkedIn's probably the best one at the moment.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:33

Yeah, I'll check it once a year. When you update your uh my position and maybe we finish a project and I post the thanks everyone. Yeah, I've yeah, I don't do much. But at the moment you can't really you can find me on my uh you can find me on normal personal pages. I don't really have anything.

Robby: 1:20:51

Then tell them where to find you. At Simon Sivva. At Simon Sivva? Yeah, that's T Z I V A. T Z I V A.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:01

One word. Anyway, hopefully it's not 120. Is it 120 episodes you said? It is one point. Hopefully it's not another 120 before we have part two of me. We'll see, we'll get us get us the 40 mil. Maybe we'll watch this one back and see where how much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:15

Get us the 40 mil, then we'll have another, then we'll invite you back. Sounds good.

Robby: 1:21:20

Now, in saying that, also, that's where you can find Simon. We also spoke about personal development, and we said there's good ones and bad ones. There's a really good one coming up. Oh, really? You've heard about it. No, could you elaborate? Yeah, so I don't know if you've heard Simon, but you might be targeted with these ads. There's actually this thing coming up called the Builders Summit. You want to tell them where they can get tickets, George?

George: 1:21:40

I don't know. You're telling the story.

Robby: 1:21:42

Click any link anywhere. Anywhere. There's free tickets. It's gonna follow you. We've got the most registrations we've had to date.

George: 1:21:49

That's that's just gonna give you an indication of how big this event's gonna be. There's a good chance, I'm gonna put it out there.

Robby: 1:21:54

There's a good chance we're gonna stop and be like, hey, that's it. Like, we can't let people are in.

George: 1:21:59

Yeah, that's it. I'm so glad you said it because that's gonna happen.

Robby: 1:22:02

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna get to the point where it's like, hey, we can't do it anymore.

George: 1:22:05

Yeah, and when they say, Oh, that's not fair, I've I've bought a ticket or I've registered or said, hang on, what's the number one thing we said that separates winners from losers? It's action. Action. It's action. So if you got there at on time and you were first in line, waiting at 6 a.m. for the doors to open, well, you would have had a seat.

Robby: 1:22:22

Yeah, yeah. And and will they get to meet the man across us right now if they come on the day?

George: 1:22:29

It's part-time, it's part-time DJ as well as GF.

Robby: 1:22:32

But we'll see how we go. We'll see how we go if you're moving. Yeah, he might just be there on the day as well.

George: 1:22:37

Um this pump say you saw him on episode 120 on YouTube and listen to it on Spotify and Apple podcasts.

Robby: 1:22:45

There's limited, limited availability. Um, there's free tickets available as well. So if you're worried about your money, you got no risk.

George: 1:22:53

And if you're not worried about your money, you can actually buy a gold or a VIP ticket as well. Did you know that?

Robby: 1:22:58

I've heard.

George: 1:22:59

I'll tell you what. If you are listening to this and you go, you know what, I want more of an experience, I want to have a really immersive day. Use the code deluxe50 and you'll get 50% off all purchase tickets. 550% off. And there's something else that's happening on the day that we've never done before. Never, not once. What is it? We're giving away a huge door price. Did you know about this?

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:25

A what door price?

George: 1:23:26

Giving a huge door price. Oh, yeah. We're giving away a$2,000 Makita tool set valued, uh, well, I just said it,$2,000 to one lucky winner on the day. Oh, we're just giving him Angelo's tools. Just gonna, all those tools downstairs, they're just gonna go straight into the into the lottery, the lottery. Now, if you also buy a ticket, you get bonus entries as well. So that's another incentive for you, plus all the goodies you get from legacy media to help you out with your social media and branding and marketing and all that sort of stuff. But the only way you can find out is if you click the link somewhere, anywhere, go find it. Yeah, in the description.

Robby: 1:24:00

In the description, send us a message on the website.

George: 1:24:03

It is everywhere, it's everywhere, guys. Like you have to try to avoid it.

Robby: 1:24:06

And there's a good chance if you just say build a summit out loud, you'll start seeing ads.

George: 1:24:10

Good.

Robby: 1:24:11

Don't ask me how. Don't ask me how.

George: 1:24:14

It's magic. All right, thank you very much, Simon, for jumping on board. Uh, because we've just been speaking for an hour. I expect you to do an extra hour and a half overtime today. And uh we will see ya next week. That's perfect. Get back to work. All right, thanks everyone. Thanks, guys.

Robby: 1:24:36

Fuck that.