Stop Competing On Price

The fastest way to stay broke in construction is to keep selling like a commodity. We talk about the real reason so many builders, trades, and service businesses get stuck in “cheap quote” hell and why some operators never hear the words, “we chose them because they were cheaper.” The difference is not luck. It’s positioning, qualification, and the confidence to charge for the outcome you actually deliver.

George walks through the early days of losing job after job, doing long free tenders, and realizing he was selling a premium service to people who didn’t value it. From there, we get practical about niching into the right market, qualifying clients before you quote, and becoming a destination builder through brand, content marketing, and a personal brand that makes buyers trust you before the first call. We also cover what “deliver” really means: setting expectations, protecting quality, and building the team and subcontractor network that can keep the promise.

We go deep on contracts, client obligations, subcontractor agreements, and payment terms, plus the mindset shift that stops you from flinching when price comes up. If you’re serious about premium pricing, builder marketing, and attracting ideal clients, this is a blueprint you can steal and tailor. Subscribe, share it with a mate in the industry, and leave a review with the one change you’ll implement this week.

Transcript

The Busy Joke And The Setup

Robby 0:00

I heard this really cool thing the other day, George.

George 0:01

Yeah, what was that?

Robby 0:02

This guy said, I'm so busy. Because we you know, you always know someone who's like super busy. We all have that friend who no matter how busy you are, they are busier.

George 0:13

Like you're like, E, hey, I'm flat out. I haven't don't even don't even believe you.

Robby 0:18

Yeah, I am super busy. They're like, bro, you're busy. Bro, I'm way busier. You're like, bro, I've I've slept four hours last night. Sleeped. I slept two. What's sleep? What's that? I haven't stopped. You're like, I've run, I I I ran two marathons this week. Like, I ran two marathons this morning. You're like, everyone has that one friend. Yeah, right. Uh and I heard something the other day, he's like, I am so busy that the other day I I I passed myself walking the other way. Like, what? I haven't heard that. Oh, yeah, either. I was like, wait, what? He's like so busy that he walked past himself. Yeah, that's how busy he was. Past himself doing something else, doing two things at once.

George 0:54

I fucking right.

Robby 0:55

I thought that was one worth uh one worth sharing. Um but do you know who is busy? Who? People who work in the construction space. You reckon? I reckon so this is I don't know. I've got I've got a bone to pick with the industry, with you, because you're the you're the I'm the master.

George 1:18

Yeah, I'm the best builder in Australia. The best builder in Australia. Um for those of you that know, no.

Builders Say Broke Yet Upgrade

Robby 1:24

Yeah, and if you don't know get to a builder summit and you will. So here's my here's my bone to pick, okay? Every builder I speak with tends to say the same thing around a couple of things. One every builder cries broke. Everyone I speak sorry, you know what? I shouldn't say that. That's that's not true, but a large portion.

George 1:45

Yeah, it's a fair general.

Robby 1:47

Yeah. Uh I I got builder clients who are amazing and they like making bank doing well. Never, never zero victimization. But then what I see a lot in the space as well is I see a lot of people tend to it's it's victimization is the perfect word, right? It's like this is hard, we don't make money, uh so much risk, you know, people don't want to pay, blah, blah, blah. One, every single builder I know, every single one, I don't know one who doesn't do this. Every single one drives a nice car. That's funny. I don't know any builders who don't I don't know any builders who don't drive a nice car. That's funny. Okay. I did not think that's where you were going with that. That's the first thing. Of course you don't think that's what I'm going. This is all about um what's it called when you guide someone one way and then you take them the other? Um Abricadabra. Yeah, that yeah. That's why that's what it's all about. Uh but another thing I see in the space as well is I see so many people, George, talk to me about the fact that they can't get people to pay for stuff. Okay, we get people all the time saying, Oh, but you know, the lead went with the cheaper option, or I couldn't get him to buy, or they don't want to spend money, or it's the economy, or the people, or blah blah blah, or the city. I get that a lot, the area. And it's like, well, just work in a different area. Um, but what also what I get to see firsthand, and I I consider myself quite lucky for this, is I get to see you do business with people right in front of me. We share an office, you know, and I for a fact know that I would be surprised if someone came to me. I'm gonna say words that have never been said. These words have never been uttered in human history. You understand? Yep. We went with Pascon because they were cheaper. Never been said first time that is I feel upset.

George 3:42

First time I would be so upset if that happened.

Why Being Cheapest Never Wins

Robby 3:45

First time in human history those words get said. Okay. And no, but really, I see it first, and I think I think there are lessons in this that people can take away that uh they're not doing. And I I don't think it's anything like, hey man, you gotta go and fucking buy Ferrari. Like it's it's nothing that is I truly believe it's nothing that's outside of most people's reach, in the sense of you just need to know what those things are to do, what the beliefs are to have. Yeah what I mean? So if it's all right with you, no, I want to share a little bit about well, let's start off with telling me like why? Why is Pascon never the cheapest? Right? What what is it, what is it that you're doing differently at Pascal that people are listening to this podcast, whether they're whether you're a builder or a trade or anything like that.

George 4:38

I mean it's relevant in the industry.

Robby 4:40

Yeah, business owner, in general, yeah.

George 4:42

If you are any industry you sell, you can buy this.

Robby 4:44

Yeah, if you sell anything you do in any form of manner, uh let's start off with explain to me why why do you think those words have never been said? Because and correct me if I'm wrong, like would you say anyone has ever has everyone's out there? Like Pascal's definitely the cheapest.

George 5:02

I've never been I've never been the cheapest builder. Even when I first started out. I believe you. Even when I first started out. Now, don't get me wrong, there was times when I've dropped my price when I first started more so to levels that I should never have done. Like, and this was just not understanding the game at the time. And early on in the world.

Robby 5:20

Sometimes it's desperation, yeah.

George 5:21

It was just like I wanted the job, you need to get the job. Yeah, it's a particular project, and it was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back for me as well. It was at a time when I'd priced so much work, so much work, and I kept losing by 50, by 100, by 200. I kept losing all the jobs I was pricing. As in you were overpriced? Yeah, each and every single time. Like I priced in my first year of operation, I priced probably 20 million dollars worth of work, and I won one project in that whole year.

Robby 5:49

So for context, how many projects would that make? Okay, that was 10 projects, 20 projects?

Niche Down And Qualify Leads

George 5:54

I reckon it'd be closer to 20 odd projects at least. You know, 20, 15 to 20. I can't tell you the 50. Yeah, it was thereabouts, whatever it was. But somewhere in that range, yeah. And it was that townhouse developments, because that's what we had been building a lot of previously. So we were really good at that. We'd we'd partner. So I was very much the scenario of I had one major client. Okay, I had one whale. He just built with me and no one else. And I had all these projects, and I was like, how good is life? This is easy. He was a never-ending resource of money. It was fine. And then what happens one day? That whale went away. I was like, holy shit, I was so dependent on this one person. Now I have to go out and hunt for my food. Yeah, which is a big mistake. Yeah, big mistake. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And it's comfortable. Like, fuck like there's part of it, which is like, I wish I still had a whale, you know. But the idea is go and find yourself 10 whales. So if one whale goes away, it's no big deal. Regardless. So coming out of that, I we're we're building a lot of townhouses for this gentleman. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna build townhouses, that's what I'm good at. So I started hitting that market and we priced 20 odd jobs, and I kept losing each and every project. Like I'd made all the allowances. Every single person I spoke to, every single one of them, was like, wow, thank you so much. You give the best tenders. We really want to use you. Like you're, we just we we like you so much, but there's just such a huge price difference between your price and the other price. And like there was the last one I ever priced like that was because I also used to always do free quotes as well. Like anyone that came to me, yeah, yeah, I'll price your job. Customers always write and put in so much effort. You know, I'd put in, I'd I would dedicate four to six weeks on the tender. I would do all the takeoffs, I'd do everything that was required. And then I kept falling short. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? So I had to get out of that pattern. That's that's the first thing I recognized. I was in a pattern where people weren't valuing what I was putting forward. They didn't value my product, which is why they never bought it. And I was like, well, what has to change here? So I remember I priced this last project, and as I said, it was a straw that broke the camel's back. It was three townhouses in Oakley. And I was too, I was 300 grand more expensive than the next price. And these were mum and dad developers, so inexperienced people, just literally looking at the bottom line. And they loved me. Like they were like, George, you're our builder. We'll like, let's make this happen and let's do all that sort of stuff. Like I back and forth and back and forth. I'm like, guys, this price, I go, send me the quote. Okay, remove the name. I don't care who it is, just send me the quote. I looked at it and I'm like, guys, he hasn't priced this, he hasn't priced this, he hasn't priced this. We've allowed for all of those things that you have asked for. You're not getting an apples for apples comparison. And like, oh, okay, yeah, cool. Let's we'll get leave us, leave it to us. They went back to him. His price went up by 150 grand in a day. Like they went to him and said, Oh, you need to allow these things. 150K just like that. So I was still 150k under. And I'm like, I'm looking at the price. I'm like, where is this guy getting this pricing from? I'm either doing, I've either made a mistake or I'm doing something wrong or whatever it was. And I'm like looking at it, I'm like, nah. So I dropped my price, I cut my margin in half. I was at a price that I should never have, I'm glad I didn't win the job. I was at a price where I should not have gone in at. And I still lost the job by like a hundred grand. And this is for three simple townhouses, nothing special, just run-of-the-mill, stock standard buildings. And I still lost the job. They came to me like, no, we're gonna go with this other guy's cheaper is this. It came down to price at the end, but we loved you and all that sort of shit. And that just pissed me off. I was like, guys, I'm sorry, you're gonna fuck up. Okay, this is a huge mistake. Like I at that time, at that time I became bitter to the client, you know, to these people. Yeah. Wasn't their fault. Completely my fault. I didn't educate them properly, I didn't qualify them properly, it was completely my fault. And anyway, they went down that path. They went with him. The funny thing, not funny, but at the time I remember driving past the site, it was about a year and a half later, the project still wasn't finished. It was at a downturn in the industry, sorry, in the market, not industry. So the sale price when they started, had they finished, if they went with me and we finished the job, they would have got top dollar. Because this guy took two years to finish the job, they ended up selling in a ship market and lost all that money that they saved in the build, they lost in the sale on the back end because they then went into a shit market and it it affected them that way. So I assume. I'm assuming they ended up selling because that's what they were going to do with it. Anyway, so I looked at that whole year and I said, I'm doing something wrong. It cannot be. I how can everyone love me? Everyone want to build with me, but no one build with me. And it's like, okay, you're offering a Ferrari to people who can't afford it. It's like I was going to Or of people who don't value it. Who don't value it. Yeah. They could be very well. I could be trying to sell a Ferrari to someone who doesn't want to drive a Ferrari. They're happy with a Mercedes. Or they're happy with their holding. And I'm like, no, no, drive the Ferrari. It's really good. Oh yeah, I love that. That's a great looking car. But the holdings, 50k. Like, why am I going to go spend half a mil? And so that was the first thing. Just my target market. Who am I targeting? Who I who do I need to be building for? So that's when we then shifted focus and went into the luxury market and go, okay, well, if I'm delivering a premium service, I need to be delivering it to premium clients. So I've shifted my niche and I said, okay, we're going to start looking at our architectural builds and architectural homes and doing that aspect of it. And we went down that path, did all that, and started to win some of those projects. I'm like, wow, okay, well, this is great. I'm doing, I'm winning the project with people that value my product, that value my service, that value my expertise. And we, one thing led to another, one thing led to another. And it's not to say I never built townhouse projects again. I did. But the clientele that I was targeting were more focused on the outcome and were focused on the deliverables. It wasn't just price. And I've got this saying, it's not my saying, but it's a saying when value exceeds price, people make decisions. The reason that people want to build with me or build with someone is they feel that they are getting more than what they are paying when they do so. And as I said, ever since you know that day, I've never been the cheapest builder ever. But there are so many things that you can do to provide additional service and value to your client to get them to see what that means to them. And for me, it starts from the very first point of contact, the very first one. It's not like you get a job come in. Perfect example. I got a project come in the other day through the website. I've spoken to the gentleman, we're going to give him a budget proposal, but I'm not, I'm going to qualify him. So he has to qualify to work with Pascal. So all of a sudden, I went from pricing 20 projects a year or 30 projects a year to pricing 10. And instead of winning one project, I would win eight out of 10. So my percentage on the return got better, but and I was qualifying the people, they wanted to buy my product and I was able to charge a premium to do so. But people have a scarcity mindset that's like the ideal client is anyone with a pulse. And I think that's a mistake. And I understand when you first start out because you do want to get revenue in the business, and it might mean you have to drop your price or your terms or something has to give in order for you to get the runs on the board. But then when you get to that point, I think niching is critically important to that. Yeah, I I Sorry for that long-winded explanation.

Robby 13:20

That's actually a perfect segue. Because like the thing we get, I I can't tell you how many times I have that conversation.

George 13:27

Yeah.

Becoming A Destination Builder

Robby 13:27

How many times I get and you worded it perfectly when you said you were doing something that was valuable but to a different audience. To the wrong people. Yeah. And I'll I'll share a story that was shared with me by someone I work with, we work with at the moment. And they came to us and they're like, We do this and we do that, and you know, we bring samples in. He said, This is exactly what uh he goes, we bring samples when we go, we bring samples. And I asked them, Did anyone else bring you samples in person? And they say no. And they still go with someone else. And I was like, dude. Me personally, so I don't give a shit. That's what that was. I said to him, I was like, hey, I'm like, like, it's great that you do that, it's great that they like that, but obviously that's not what they're making decisions based on. They're not gonna be like, Why'd you go with us because you brought samples? It's like you need to understand what the person uh values, and in some cases that might be budget, you know what I mean. If you're working with a lower tier market and you're doing smaller jobs and you're doing them based on uh desperation, you know what I mean, like they need they need to get this done and they can't find the money. Yeah, they're gonna go with the cheapest builder purely because they can't afford anything else, and that's what they're gonna look at. Now, if budget's not an issue, then they start looking at other things, right? They start looking at quality, they start looking at and it's like you need to understand what the end user actually values, yeah. Right? You need to understand what the person on the other side of the of the uh uh contract, I guess, actually wants, or the other side of the call actually wants. Like what what's important to that person? Now you you've also managed to create a I mean in in real estate we had this thing called uh attraction agent, right? It was like how do you become the agent that people so there was like a destination builder?

George 15:25

Is that what they call it? No, it's just but it's like you want to be the destination like Hawthorne Football Club used to say that they want it to be a destination club so that other players from other clubs are attracting, they want to come and play at Hawthorne because best facilities, best culture, family club, whatever they want to do, they want to attract the best. And that's not just players, that's staff, coaches, and so on and so forth. And it's it's a similar scenario that I try and have here at my company too. When I first heard that, and I think I heard that in like 2008, 2009, around that premiership era. I think Kenneth said it um when he was president, and I was like, okay, that's that's a really great concept. I like that idea being a destination um clear builder, yeah, clearly um being a destination builder, not just for clients, but for trades, for employees and what people wanting to come and work here because of what they see. What what did you do to do that though?

Robby 16:17

Like because I remember before you, before you uh I'll interject real quick. I remember being the agent trying to become the attraction agent.

George 16:28

But as in the individual or the company, it's the same thing, it's a brand. Okay, yeah.

Robby 16:33

You want the brand or the person, right? Personal brand was early in real estate because they always said, hey, the people sign with you, they don't sign with RTF. Ray White, yeah. You know what I mean? They're like, they want Robbie. Yeah, they don't want Ray White. So if Robbie moves, they will move because they've been watching you, they haven't been watching the brand. That that was really early in real estate. Yeah, that's um and I feel fortunate I got in, like I was able to. It was like doing posts in like 2015, yeah, 2014.

George 17:04

Yeah, so quite interesting, quite early, yeah, yeah, very early.

Robby 17:06

Yeah, um, and I I I remember having that feeling, and I I I never got there in real estate. I never got there. But you weren't in there that long. Real estate, yeah. That's a long time, yeah.

George 17:23

Jesus That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I was in real estate for ages. I don't know. I felt like you were there for like six months. I don't know why.

Robby 17:29

I was I wish it would be uh no, you know what? I don't wish. Told me a lot. Yeah, it's good. Talk about lead generation, told me about sales, like dude. As a real estate agent, you have to walk into someone's home and it's chaotic and you gotta walk in and sit down with them and discuss the home. And it's like I'd never been in a most businesses, you they come to you. You know what I mean? You're you're probably one of the exceptions as well. If you actually not even you, sorry, maybe someone who does renays. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but most uh businesses it's like they come to you, whereas this was like you have to walk in, do people cooking dinner, kids crying, dog bar I used to be fucking scared of dogs, yeah. Dog barking, uh, and you have to go in and sit there in your suit and be cool. And you get to see how people live. So that was very a great learning experience. But uh the point of the story is like okay, what did you do to build that you call it destin your destination building? Destination builder. What did you do to build that brand that made you a destination builder?

George 18:32

Well, I wasn't taking photos of bathroom renovations, first of all. Like I wasn't documenting that I was doing that sort of stuff. Now, at the time, would I have done smaller projects that weren't luxury homes? Absolutely. I just wouldn't necessarily advertise that I was doing that. I would use that as a means to invest into getting those bigger projects, you know, through advertising, through branding, through whatever it might be. But it for me, it it the brand didn't start early for me because as I said, I had a whale and I was just building for that guy. So I was like, I could I almost was arrogant to a degree. This building thing's easy, running a company's easy, how good is this? I just I have heaps of work, I don't need to go out and search for work. So I never actually went out to build brand. I literally took, I think, like nine photos in two years and posted that, you know, and we post that in a week now. So it was it was a decision to actually start building my brand on the from a business perspective. I was a little bit later for personal brand, but from my business brand, I was kind of I kind of was doing a personal brand through the business as well at the time because I didn't really think about it much more as I didn't think there was the two as different at the time. Yeah, but I I so I made a decision once I got educated in the space and I saw the power of it, is to really document the process of us building and what that looked like, but also just doing some cool, funky videos that attracted people's attention. And as a result of that, people got excited and started to follow and started to engage with the projects that we were doing. And as you said before, people buy from people. So that's when I then went into building a personal brand. Okay, people need to understand who I am and what I'm about and how I go about things. And all of a sudden, it wasn't just, oh, we want to work with Pascal, it's oh, we want to work with George. And the ecosystem just kept growing and growing, and I keep doing it and I don't stop. Like even now, we're trying to build the brand even more so and do more things and just be out there. We invest in in um not just from a social aspect, but how does how do our sites look? How does the how do the cars look? How does everything look from a whole range looking outside? Yeah, like it's a it's an important thing, it's an important aspect because it's a it influences people's decision to do business with you. How does the brand make you feel? There's a reason why, there's a reason why I wear a Garmin watch instead of an electric tag watch. You know, what's sort of how does that make me feel? What's the service like? What's the what's it targeting? What does it do? All the things that that represents, I need to have a connection with, otherwise, I won't buy the product. And that's what you have to do with your audience as well. When you target those people, that's who's going to start calling you up and saying, yeah, we want to work with you. And I've found that most of the time, as a result of our brand and how we how we position ourselves, when the person calls up and says, Hey, been following you for a while, or this person's referred you, or you know, so on and so I've been really want to work with you, half your job's already done. I don't have to sit there and convince you why I'm so good. You've already done that yourself, or we've already done that through the content that we create. You know, and even now when we do builder summits and events, people come up to me like I'm a movie star. Like, I'll follow all your stuff, I'll listen to all your podcasts, I do all this. I'm like, hey, thanks, man. Like I appreciate it. So we've influenced them just through providing exceptional value through these channels or through the brand. And that's what you're doing. When you're building your brand for your business or for yourself. So brand uh positioning. Yeah, I think that's really important. Yeah, there's a lot of other delivery, like there's you've got to deliver too. Like Ferrari don't just sell the badge, they sell the whole car. And the car is fast and it looks good. So it delivers on its promise. There's an element of that. So as a builder, if you're doing those projects, you need to be able to also deliver them. Or a tradee or a florist or whatever you want to be, deliver on your product and your service. You've got to get the runs on the board too.

Robby 22:32

What does that mean?

George 22:33

What? Deliver. Deliver? I'd say it'd be with I'd deliver on expectations. Deliver on the expectation. So it was like I want to over-expect, like I want to deliver more than the expectation. Okay, great, but just deliver on the expectation first. This is what the project is. This is how we're going to build it. This is what we're going to use. This is what we're going to do. I literally came from a site meeting today before I came into this podcast. And the owner was like, oh, he's like, this is, he goes, it's really coming together. I'm really excited. You know, this job is looking fantastic. You know, because he goes, I see you haven't cut any corners on anything. The quality's really good. And I said, Yeah, it is. Well, now we're a little bit late on this job. We will deliver this job late. But the client isn't going to take me to court. He's not going to, you know, rip me a new one or anything. I go, I told it to him. I said, listen, we're going to be a little bit late on this job, but I need to make sure we build this thing properly. Right? This is a four and a half million dollar home. It takes finesse, like it takes time to do certain things. I want to make sure we do it right the first time. Because if you tell me, George, I need you to be out of here in four weeks, I'll be out of here in four weeks. Okay, but don't expect the level of finish that it needs to be. There has to be a level of care and time taken to make sure things get done properly. And so that we're not coming back to fix things. We're coming back because you're inviting me for a coffee. So deliver on expectations, I think is really important. And uh make sure you do. You have the team behind you. I think that's critically important. And when I say team, it's not just your direct employees, it's the people working for you, subcontractors, suppliers, everyone on the ground that's actually building the thing. Getting those people that have the same values as what you do. I think that's really important too.

Robby 24:15

Okay, and then so if someone if someone's listening to this now and they're in a position where they're because I I countless conversations. Countless. Yeah. People don't want to pay, blah, blah, blah. And and I I always preach this whole thing of like, hey man, like if you don't explain the difference between what you do and what so and so does, kind of like you were saying before. If you don't explain the difference, the person will only get value by you're saying, hey man, these things uh you're gonna get the same result. This one's cheaper, they're both the same, this one's cheaper. Yeah. Which one are you gonna go for? Yeah, you're gonna go for the cheap one. Everything if they're the if they're the same. Right. Are there people who might think, well, they're not the same? Yes. And they're probably right, but it's your job as the person selling the product or the service to say this is why they're not the same. You know what I mean? You need to differ the the people who choose to go with Pascon, I believe, I haven't interviewed them. Should interview them, huh? I haven't interviewed him, but I believe they know they're not they're not getting the same uh product. They're aware of that. They're not just saying on a go, George is cool. You know what I mean? They they understand that you're that there is a certain standard that you're gonna deliver. And I I think you've done a really good job in positioning the brand in a way and then focusing on the outcome as well, uh, that has made that promise and then kept it.

Bad Clients And Stronger Contracts

George 25:50

Thanks. I appreciate you saying that. You know, that that it just goes to show and you see it firsthand as well, you probably see it more than other people. Um, and I appreciate you saying that because it's it's been a lot of hard work. It'd like it no one said it was going to be easy. No, I didn't not once did I say that was it was easy for me to do all this. Did not say that once. It's not easy, it's hard, it takes effort, it takes investment. I've had to pay videographers a lot of money, I've had to pay photographers a lot of money, I've had to get skills so I can speak in front of camera and actually deliver my message. I've had to get training in sales, I've had to do so much to get to that point where I can back myself and say, this is what it costs, this is why it costs this much, this is why you're better off using us as opposed to everyone else. And I think if you can, in your business, deliver that to your client, you'll never go hungry ever again. You will have the quality clients that you're attracting and that you want to be working with. Now, have I ever had a bad client? Absolutely. I've had heaps of bad clients. I've had people who are the worst people on the planet that you should that are oxygen thieves. They should apologize to all the trees for all the hard work that they're making to make oxygen for them to breathe. I've had those types of types of clients. Now, but when they came to me, they were the perfect client in the sense of they were my ideal client, the product and service they paid for or they engaged me for. Now, along the way, they became a bad client, but at the time of me attracting them, they were the ideal client. The thing that follows on from that is okay, well, what's your process to manage a bad client? So all these guys will say, oh, they don't pay, they don't do this, they don't do that. Well, yeah, but you also need, there's also a guarantee in every one of those relationships, there would have been a point in time where that builder or that person should have done something to stop that bad behavior. And post-COVID, because that's where all of my bad clients came from. I didn't really have bad clients before COVID or after. Funny enough, all my bad clients came from COVID. My contracts are now written in a way that's so much more impactful and meaningful and protects me, protects the owner because of my experiences that I had during that difficult time. And the beauty about it is I'll present a tender now and we actually have a discussion around the lines of what their obligations are to the project, what they need to do so this project is successful. And when you have that conversation with them and they understand their obligations, and I'm talking obligations like pay us on time, don't come to site whenever you want, don't call employees after 5 p.m., um, a whole range of safety stuff, like all these things, when they understand their obligations, the process is just so much smoother on site and they value you as the expert. They go, okay, George knows what he's doing. I'm not going to be the type that's going to come on site and do this and point fingers and say that and say that. We're the expert. And I think that's important too. Establishing, establish yourself as an expert in your field. Because if you can do that, your clients will trust you more. They won't go to chat and say, How come what's the tolerance for this brick wall?

Robby 28:59

I've had a few, that's funny as I've had a few uh people mention that to me actually saying that uh less builders more trades. Uh asking questions. Let's build as more trades. Yeah, no, no. I think the people telling me it's less likely to be a builder and more likely to be a trade. Just from my experience. What do you mean, sorry? I don't know. So more trades say this to me than builders. Oh, sorry, sorry.

George 29:26

I thought you were trying to, I think it was a saying on site or something. Oh, yeah, okay. Sorry.

Robby 29:29

I'm like, man, what are you not getting? Yeah. Um so the the I say that because the specific one I remember was a plumber. And he came to me, he's like, how do I stop um people from going to chat and saying, hey, I'm trying to replace, I've got a plumber coming to replace this. How much should it cost? And then chat will be like, it should be between 200 and 400. And then the plumber will get there and be like, cool, that's$900. And he's like, Oh, chat said you should be$200, you know what I mean? Yeah, give chat to come and fix the fucking pipe, you dumb shit. Yeah, how good. Yeah, call your chat. Yeah. Um by the way, side note, I'm about to unsubscribe from ChatGPT's paid version.

George 30:12

Yeah, can I just say I was using it today and it was fucking taking ages. Oh, it was taking ages to answer a simple question that I was like, you know, I was thinking, and it's like, oh, and then the other day I was getting it to a look at something, and I'm like, he goes, Do you want it this way or this way? I said, I want a detailed report. I go, I need it to be at least this long, blah blah. Three times I had to ask it the same fucking question. All right. And it's like, I go, you you've given me a three-page summary. I want a detailed fucking report that's like 15 pages long. And I literally said, for fuck's sake, I've told you this three times. Get your fucking shit. I should cracked it at it. He's like, oh, sorry, my bad. Okay, yes, you're bad. Fix it. This is what I've asked you to do. Got upset and I was like, fucking Robbie.

Robby 30:53

Yeah, Robbie told me. Get on to Claude, been telling you, get onto Claude, get onto Claude. Claude's a mad dog. Claude turns around and says, I'll tell something to Claude. He'd be like, You're fucking kidding me. Swears at me and all.

The Hammer Story On Expertise

George 31:07

Uh it's like, what the for fuck's sake, yeah. Hey, calm the fuck down. Just relax. Yeah. Um, can I tell you a story based off that what you just said? Um about the plot the trade and the 400 bucks. Yes. The the person uh searching up the thing. Yeah, so there's a a story. I don't know whether it's true or not, it's probably not. But let's let's put that true true. It's a great example.

Robby 31:29

It's true, it's true.

George 31:29

It is true. I was there. There was uh hey, it was my ancestors from Greece. So there was a ship. Did you know Greece has one of the biggest maintenance shipyards in the world? Didn't know that, but they do. A lot of ships go through Greece for all of Europe. Anyway. Really? Yeah. I learned that with through the war conversation that we said the other day. Anyway, there was a ship in the cargo area. It was whatever it was, a big container ship, and it had broken down. Now, every hour that that ship was sitting in the dock, it cost the company$100,000 every single hour that it was sitting there because it was taking space and time from other ships to dock and take their material off and all that sort of stuff. They had engineers trying to start the engine and they couldn't start the engine. They had them there, they'll pay them tens of thousands of dollars. No one could start the engine. Then one guy comes up and he goes, I know this guy, he'll he'll he will be able to start this engine. And he's like, okay, no worries. Get him here, we'll pay him whatever. Like, just get him here. We've got to get this thing started. Let's go. This engineer comes down, he looks at it, and he's like, all right, 15. He goes, looks at it, looks at a few areas of the engine, grabs a hammer, gives it a couple of taps, bang, the engine starts. And they're like, Whoa, he goes, You're amazing. That's so good. I can't believe it. He goes, fantastic. He sends them a bill,$100,000. The captain's like, what the fuck?$100,000? That's bullshit. He was there for 15 minutes. What did he do in a that cost$100,000 to get this fucking ship started? He goes, I'm asking for an itemized breakdown of the of his invoice. And he goes, No worries. So he sent him an itemized breakdown, hammer,$50. Knowing where to hit the hammer, uh, knowing where, yeah, to hit the engine,$999,000. What is it?$999,050 or whatever it is. Yeah. And he gave him that. So there is a level of at the like model of that story, I guess it's not just what they did, there's a level of expertise. There's a level of him being a professional at delivering on his product. And he was the only one that could do it out of all of these people that they'd paid before, he knew exactly where to hit that hammer. And as a result, he paid for it. So you need to document and show your audience or your client why you're worth that money that you're charging. Because otherwise, it's just a matter of, well, this plumber said he can do it for 200. Why am I paying you nine? Oh, well, that plumber's gonna send an apprentice and it's probably gonna leak in six months. I use proper materials, he's using recycling materials from another job. Okay, so that's where you really need to educate your clients, and that's where it's your fault if you haven't.

Robby 34:19

Yeah, and I think um for most people hearing that story, I reckon most people don't back themselves.

George 34:27

Yeah, absolutely. There's a level of self-doubt there for sure.

Robby 34:30

Yeah, like I think there's a very good exercise where you can actually, you know how you said like you need to prove to them why you're the authority? If you actually sat down and laid out all the reasons why you're good at something, like sometimes you just need to go through that exercise and be like, all right, well, why am I why am I a good builder? Or why am I a good plumber? And actually lay it out and be like, well, all right, I'll I always, you know, I always do this and I always get jobs done on time and always get them done within budget and I'm fair on pricing, and you know, I've run a good team and I'm a good leader and blah blah blah. And it's like you lay these things out and you actually it almost sounds stupid, but you're kind of educating yourself. And you know, most of the time education isn't learning something new, man. It's uh like most of the time you're just reminding yourself of something you already knew. Do you know what I mean? It's it's very rare, especially you and I we've we've invested a lot into ourselves, but like now at this point, it's very rare to go and learn a whole new concept, but most of the time it's just like you're being reminded of that thing, and you're like, fuck yeah, like I it's not the first time I hear that, but and it won't be the last time I'd be reminded either, because I'll I'll slip up. But it's like you get reminded again and again and again. It's like sometimes the education process is not just about learning what's new, but about constantly reminding yourself of what already is, you know, and giving yourself that feedback of yes, like I I fuck I can charge those prices. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then, dude, when you believe client said to me the other day, he goes, Ah, I feel like they're not gonna, I feel like they're they're looking for the cheaper option. I was like, dude, like if you feel like you're gonna lose. You're fucking you're gonna lose. Yeah, if that's how you feel already now, you think that's not gonna be portrayed in everything you do from here moving on. Yeah, yeah. You think then you're not gonna show something in your face or something when they start talking about price that it's not gonna show, they're not gonna we humans pick up on it, you know what I mean?

Subcontractor Terms And Payment Rules

George 36:29

Yeah, you gotta like it all starts with you, yeah. Uh and look, I also practice what I preach as well. It's not I I going on the other end, I am a client to other people. Okay, so what do I look for with my subcontractors? And this happened to me yesterday. Now I have okay, I've got some structural steel that I've got priced up for a project. And I look at the job, I'm like, cool, that's the price. I've got three varying prices. I've gone through them, I've reviewed them, they are all giving me the same product. Okay. I've gone to there's a guy that's on budget, a guy that's a little bit under budget, and there's a guy that's significantly under budget. And like, okay, well, let's have a conversation with a guy that's significantly under budget. Have you allowed this? Yes, I have. Have you allowed that? No, I haven't. Okay, cool. Add that. Right. So I've gone through all of these things that we need for the project because I don't want to give it to him and then go, oh, it's an extra five grand for that. Oh, it's an extra three grand for that, it's an extra two grand. So I want to make sure that the scope is completely covered. Long story short, okay, okay, I'm in a position where I feel comfortable that I can award you this project at this price. I said, but before we go down that path, you need to sign a contract. Right. So we don't engage any subcontractor that doesn't sign a subcontract agreement with between PASCON and yourself. So we need a legally binding contract that you're going to give me this service and I'm going to legally pay you or contractually pay you this much money when you give me that service and that product. That's the first thing. And they go, the second thing, we have payment terms. So our payment terms are 30 days end of the month. That means you do the work, you then get paid 30 days end of the month. And it's like, oh, look, blah, blah, blah, we need deposits, we need this. I said, look, it's a decent value. For me to give you a deposit, I need some form of security. How do I know you don't use that money and go and buy jet ski or pay your Bass or whatever you're going to do with that money? I don't know. Are you going to use it to buy my steel or are you going to go use it to pay your other bills and then go broke and then I need to find that deposit money? So I said, okay, you want a 30% deposit, given that it's our first job, I'll give you 20 in good faith. But I want a letter of ownership of the steel. So if you do go broke, I can kind of say, that's my steel, that's my steel, that's my steel, give it to me. And he's like, okay, I can give you that, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, look, I've spoken to the boss and all that sort of stuff. We're not going to sign a contract. We're not going to move on our deposits. I'm like, okay, no worries. So I've got someone now who doesn't want to work to the terms and conditions, who's cheaper. To me, right now, where it's at, he's not getting the job. I'm going to go with the more expensive option because this other person, he will sign contracts. He will work to payment terms. I've worked with him before, so I know he can deliver. His price is still fair and reasonable. It's not the cheapest, but I'm willing to pay a premium to use him as opposed to this other guy that's so much cheaper. Now I will pick up double the amount of saving using the cheaper guy than what I will the other guy. Okay, but I'm going for him because of the terms and conditions, and his price is still competitive.

Robby 39:24

I see you're like the person who's looking. Okay, that's that's a really good example because you're like the person who they are the two builders for most people.

George 39:34

Exactly the same scenario. Yeah. Exactly the same scenario. Except I'm trying to that's what I say. I practice what I preach as well. But the difference here is you're educated. Yeah, that's right. Yes. And I think that's a good thing. And that's what usually is not. Do you know how many builders at at say my built mastery course that I do, which is a flagship three-day event for those of you that want to come, get in touch. At that course, do you know how many builders I have that tell me, oh, I could never get my trades on 30-day payment terms? I'll never get my trades to sign a subcontract agreement. They will just, they just won't do it. They are so convinced, they are so entrenched in their belief that that cannot happen and will not happen that they don't ever do it.

Robby 40:17

And because why would you do something you don't believe? You're never gonna do that. Exactly right. It was like the guy, the guy at the builder summit the other day who said we can't charge for quotes. And I was like, You can't charge for quotes. I was like, What do you do? It's like I'm a builder. And I was like, put your hands up and charge for quotes. Hands are up. I was like, how do they do it? Like, but that person, he's not a bad person, he just genuinely believes that he can't charge for quotes. Yeah, do you know what I mean? If if your guys at the event, your guys, like you own them, your guys at the event, uh genuinely believe they can't get someone to do that. They won't. And if you genuinely believe that you can't win the job being the high priced option, you won't. And most of the time, most of the time, it's because you work in the same way.

George 41:08

Yeah.

Robby 41:08

As the consumer. That's right.

George 41:10

Yes, exactly right. Bang on.

Robby 41:12

Yeah. You do the same thing when you're gonna do it. You'll go do the same thing. You're like, I'm gonna go for the cheaper one. Yeah, you know what I mean.

George 41:17

Why would I buy that car when I can buy this one? Why would I buy brand new when I can go get it secondhand and save myself$50,000? Okay, you don't have a brand new car, you don't have warranty, you don't have all the other things that a person buying a new car would value. Oh, it depreciates as soon as you walk out the door.

Robby 41:32

Yeah, and also you're gonna buy a car where another man has sat in that seat. Yeah, go. Um, anyway, back to serious things.

George 41:47

No, quick, let's let's keep going on that joke for an hour.

Robby 41:50

Um, but do you get what I'm saying? Like yes, uh, this is about maybe you as the person, and I don't know who needs to hear this, but maybe you as the person are trying to deliver a product that you wouldn't buy.

George 42:02

Yeah, wow. Powerful. That's and that's what I say with sales.

Robby 42:06

If this mic wasn't on the thing, I'd drop it.

George 42:07

Yeah, that's what I say in sales. I genuinely would buy my product. I believe in my product so wholeheartedly that I would sell it to my mother. You used to say that all the time. You don't say it anymore. I say it at the at Built Mastery because I do a sales aspect here.

Robby 42:21

Yeah, you used to say that I would charge, I would sell this to my grandmother.

George 42:24

Yeah, I would. I would because I know if she bought it, she would get the best value product, she would benefit from using me to build her home. No doubt. She would win. She would win. So why wouldn't I want that for her? Now, um, what were we talking about? The subbies.

Robby 42:46

Subcontractor agreement beliefs.

George 42:48

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, oh yeah, all those beliefs that they they say I can never do it, I can never do it. And I said, But I do it every single day. And coming back to the destination builder, when I establish myself as a destination builder, let's just pretend I have a subby who's like, oh, I've never signed a contract before, but I really want to work with Pascal. I've never done payment terms, but I really want to get in with these guys. What are they gonna do? They're gonna start to go, okay, yeah, I agree to doing that. I agree to doing that. And then they do it and they go, Oh, this is all right. This is all right. I've got to I feel safe. I've had a subby to me come come to me in the past going, hey, you've ruined me. I said, Why? He goes, I get nervous doing a job for a builder where we don't have a subcontract agreement. He goes, I feel genuinely like, oh fuck, is this guy like I don't have anything in place? Like, how is this guy gonna pay me? I feel nervous now. There's no contractual obligation for this guy to do anything. He can just turn around and say, no, I'm not paying you, fuck off.

Robby 43:40

Yeah, and then what do you think on his door? What do you do?

George 43:43

Like, I literally was in that money. I said it the other week. I was in that scenario where I had to strong arm a subby to come and come back and finish his job, or that I was gonna sue him. But if I didn't have a subcontract in place, he would have just been like dead. I just wouldn't be able to get him on the phone. Like, what's George gonna do? Oh, we had an agreement. Cool. Take it up in court. See what they say. And like, show me the agreement. Oh, you shook hands. Do you have a photo? Do you have a signature of you signing hands? What are the terms and conditions?

Model Winners And Learn Sales

Robby 44:11

Show me your hands. Show me your hands. Let me see. Um, okay, so so someone in that position now who's like, fuck, you know what, you guys are right. Um I am that person, you know. I I definitely think it's all about price, and generally everything I look at is price, and you know, most of the jobs we win or all of the jobs we win are based on price. What does that person do? Like that person says, Okay, I I want to be the next passcon. I I want to build a company or a brand that's gonna allow me to okay.

George 44:48

So look at some of those companies and start to model them. Like, what are they doing? I'll I'll be open with you. I when I first started looking at building my brand, there was a company that I was looking at and I go, these guys are killing it. And I still today, even with all the brand that I do and how I'm trying to push the barrier with certain things, I still think they are the industry leaders. And to me, that's a company called Grayer in Queensland, uh Builder. They put a post up the other day and I sent it to my GM, I sent it to a few other people, and I even sent it to my boardroom members at Builder Elite. I was like, guys, like take note. These guys don't need to brand. They've got enough of a power behind what their brand is that they don't need to go to this extent. Okay, but take a look at this project, right? They're building a, I don't know, 20-story apartment building. And they had wrapped the whole building with their logo, nothing else. There was no architects, there was no anything. They wrapped, they would have spent tens of thousands of dollars wrapping this whole building with their logo all the way around. And it was neat. It looked professional. They had the tower crane that had their logo on it. They had this big gantry hoarding at the front, massive logo. I'm talking huge, like because they had a drone photo of it, and you could see the cars were this small in the photo, and the sign was like this, and you got a little car like that down there. It was fantastic. Okay, these are people who understand the game, they understand what they're doing.

Robby 46:15

The power, the petition.

George 46:16

It's powerful, it's powerful. And it's like, okay, so model what they're doing. Look at that and go, okay, interesting. I really like what they're doing. I think it was last year or the year before. They did a post on the 1st of April. And they're like, we've been working really hard in the background. This has been top secret, everything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That doesn't even F1 car with Grayer on the side of the Ferrari F1 car. And then they had a photo of Lewis Hamilton wearing his kit, and they had Greyer on the collar, right? Saying new sponsor. Grayer have established a 20 mil a year deal with Ferrari, the partnership and collaboration, and everyone, like it went viral. Everyone's sharing it. Like, what the fuck? Let's check out these guys. Everyone's talking about it. They came out the next day, April Fools. I thought, you fucking legends, what a great concept. What a fantastic idea to grab the attention of everyone and go, look at what we're sorry, guys. April Fools. We're just kidding. Yeah.

Robby 47:21

You shared that with me.

George 47:22

I thought that was such a clever marketing campaign and branding campaign to do something like that because it got eyeballs on it. It was entertaining. It was like, aha, you got me. How good. Good on them. So I still look at them and go, okay, there's things that I can model with that company. I'll go overseas. I've seen some content that companies have made in America. I'm like, oh, that's cool. I remember sending it to you once and say, hey, can you do this video for me? No one's doing it here in Australia. And you're like, leave it with me. And bang, all of a sudden we got that building coming out of the ground after I pressing my watch and all that sort of shit and doing all some funky shit. And you did that. Now we were the, I guarantee, we're the only ones in Victoria, in Australia, that have made that video. That video went viral. It went fucking viral.

Robby 48:04

I've got it on calls with videographers, and they're like, people have sent me this video.

unknown 48:08

Yeah.

Robby 48:09

They're like, people have sent me this video asking if I can do the same for them.

George 48:12

Yeah. Yeah. But that's what I mean. Like, that's great for your brand to be able to deliver something like that. But then it's also good for us because people go, Oh, you're the one that did that and this. Okay, yeah, that's my hand. That's my hand pressing the thing and the button comes out, and how good is that? So modeling some of the companies that are winning, that's one aspect of it from a brand perspective. And then you go, well, I don't know what they do in their day-to-day operations and how they sell. Well, then that's when you need to start educating yourself in that area. So do you need to come? And this isn't a plug, but you should come to Builder Summits, come to Built Mastery and learn all these things that I'm actually plug, plug away. I'm actually teaching people this shit. Like what I do. If you genuinely want to learn and connect and go, well, how do I get to be that type of builder? Or what do I need to do? Well, you've got someone literally teaching you. I'm not keep holding secrets. I'll teach you. I'll tell you what I do and how to do it and how for you and for you how to win. Like, how lucky are you? Now, again, if you're looking at these other businesses and you go, well, they're gurner, they're this, they're like, how do I become that? I can never be that. You can. You can. You just need to educate yourself in that space. So if you think you're shit at sales, go get better at sales. Now you might just go do a sales course that you find someone online that does it. It could be shit. You might learn one thing, you might learn 10 things. It could be mind-blowing. The idea is you're going to get better and better and better. And you just mentioned it before. It's like it's very rare now that we go to an event or a training or something and go, wow, that was mind-blowing. I just learned this whole brand new concept and thing. I'm going to go out and implement it. Most of the ideas are very recycled or just mixed up, but the core essence of what it is is the same shit.

Robby 49:52

Yeah, most things, most things are not brand new breakthrough groundbreaking things. I heard a cool saying about this. I said, anything you think is new is just very good plagiarism. Or something like that. Yeah. And it's like nothing is new. Yeah. It's all like unless it's if it's new, it's a scientific discovery.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Yeah.

Robby 50:10

Yeah. Do you get that? Like if for you to uncover something that wasn't already, you have made a discovery.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Yeah.

Content At Scale Pays Off

Robby 50:16

Right. Um we'll close with this. How long has the journey been? Ten years, eleven years? Okay. Ten years of building Pascal. From a branding positioning, you know, destination builder type angle. What's the biggest lesson? What's the one thing from the branding perspective? Yeah, what's the one thing where you're like, fuck, I wish I fucking knew this, man. Like if I had someone had fucking told me this uh 10 years ago, we would be so far.

George 50:56

Yeah, so much fun. I'd say creating content at scale, like just taking it to the next level. Just create so much. Like create so much that you have a library of content to post forever in a day. You know, don't be afraid to do it. Don't be afraid to invest money in it. It will pay itself off each and every time. Set your money aside to build your brand and create content. Set money aside off every single, I don't care if you put a thousand bucks or you go, right, we're taking 10 grand off the bottom line of every project and we're going to invest that much in brand and marketing today. Do that because it will pay itself off. It's like marketing. No one ever's like, you have to invest money before there's the unknown. Yeah. Right. And it's like, how do I know if this works? How do I know if this works? Well, it will work eventually. It will work. It's worked, it's proven itself every fucking time. Every time. Sorry, one more thing. I had one video that made me in excess of$10 million in revenue. One video. Do you know what I mean? And it's like people say, oh, branding doesn't work, or I can't be bothered. What if I like a lot? I keep coming back to this Hormosie saying all the time. And I'm thinking about it a lot lately, a lot in so many aspects of my life. And it's like, do so much work that it will be unreasonable for you to fail. What does that look like?

Robby 52:14

Dude, I'm convinced that he's you look at everyone, that's his thing. His thing is he he worked harder than anyone who was most he worked harder than 99.99% of people are willing to. I've even looked at him sometimes and said, Wait, like you're you're famous and you got you're doing a live stream with 2,000 people. Like I wanna I don't know if I'd be down to do that if I was in your position. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you're doing it, and he's like, hey, like not like a 20-minute live stream, like a fucking four-hour jam-packed value-based. Yeah. It's like I'd I'd fucking think twice about doing it now.

George 52:52

Yeah. But most people would, and then nowhere near that level. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Most people would. So he's being unreasonable. He is unreasonable. He is unreasonable. And I kind of and it doesn't mean that okay, you've got to be that completely, that complete level of being unreasonable. But what it does do is it goes, well, what's missing? Right? What could I do be doing that's more? What could I do to increase the probability of success? And that's what I look at. Like I look at out in my health now. I was speaking to my coach on Tuesday, was the last time I trained. And I was saying that, I said that same thing to him. It's like we're looking at my, I'm looking at calories, I'm looking at working out, I'm looking at things, and I was like, okay, I've I've got some good results now. I go, what's gonna take, what would it take for me for it to be unreasonable for me to fail at the weight goal or the physique goal or whatever it is? And it's like, cool. Like if you were trained every single day, like you're training right now, if you then included a two cardio sessions, if you dropped your calories to this, if you did like it, would be you would have to get the results. There's no ifs or buts about it. You have to get the results. And it's the same with when it comes to branding and marketing. My advice to you, whether you're starting out and you've got, because a lot of people are like, I've only got one job. I like, what do I do? What do I take? Well, take photos of your video of yourself. People will follow it. People buy from people. They don't buy because you've taken a photo of a shitty bathroom, in your opinion. Someone else might think it's amazing. Someone else might love to watch that journey. Someone else, it could be the reason why they buy from you in the future. So I wish I started my brand like day one. I wish I started building brand from day one, getting in front of the camera, documenting every single little thing. And to a degree, I still feel like I don't do enough. And we do this podcast, I'll do videos from time to time. I still feel today that I don't do enough.

Robby 54:42

The um the thing with content as well, I think the more you do, the more you start to learn what works and what doesn't. And I also I tell people this all the time, especially with your completed like your projects, you you got you need professional photos.

George 54:59

Oh, without a doubt. Don't skimp out. Don't skip out. Don't just go on your phone and take some fucking photos. I've gone to the extent of spending money to furnish a home. To get proper I've paid to put furniture in the home. My own, my own money, I've paid to put furniture in there so I could take good photos so it wasn't an empty kitchen or an empty bathroom or an empty whatever.

Robby 55:22

It should be done every single time.

George 55:24

That's right.

Robby 55:24

When you do an empty property, it's not the same.

George 55:26

It's not the same, it doesn't give the same appeal. And it's like, okay, what if that was the reason that someone bought the next three million dollar home from you? Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. And it's like they don't get that. They're like, oh, I won't see that. But when I said that one video made me$3 million, uh$10 million, what that was was it was a client who saw my content, it called me up, I priced the job, I won the job. Now that same guy, I then two years later built a$6 million apartment for and did another$2 million retail fit out for, uh, sorry, a part penthouse fit out for. So between those three projects, it was over$10 million because I and this is when I had like 2,000 followers. Yeah. So you don't need 50,000 followers either. No. You just need to create the content and it will come, it will go each and every time. And as you said, the right type of content too.

Robby 56:19

Yeah, it's a it's a demonstration of it's your how you're being portrayed. Yeah. You get to pick what that looks like, but it's going to be how essentially you're being portrayed from an online standpoint.

George 56:32

That's right. And it's it's two things as well, which we've mentioned it's entertainment um and the and education, the two best forms of content. They're generally doing one or the other. The best types do both. But what I've recently seen, and you've also highlighted to me, is I think the entertainment aspect is definitely more powerful.

Robby 56:51

It's a bigger market.

George 56:52

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And you think about it just from doom scrolling and what people's attention spinning is like. Does that mean dollar signs? Probably not so much, but it does mean eyeballs. You know, like by all the viral content that I've created, the most viral, it's all about jet skiing. Like millions of views on stupid videos. Now, but what's to say? Okay, if I'm building game, I'm done, I'm just gonna go create jet ski content. And then C do sponsor me, and then I travel the world, and then I'm an ambassador, I get free jet skis, I get it can open up doors.

Robby 57:31

Your ideal client instantly changes changes in that scenario.

George 57:35

All of a sudden, it's not about people who want to build a yeah, it's about people that want outdoors, yeah.

Robby 57:44

And that's a way bigger audience.

Status Brands And Premium Pricing

George 57:45

Yeah, that's right. That's right. So, yeah, there is that aspect. But I I think, guys, in this day and age, you're crazy not to build brand. And if you look just, I mean, my content feed is that it's like everyone's an expert to a degree, they kind of are in their field. If they've been doing it long enough, they back themselves, they know what they're talking about, then great, you're an expert. Go for it, back yourself.

Robby 58:08

Yeah, chat. You know more than you know more than what I hope I hope you know more than what most people in your space or who use your product know. Yeah. You know what I mean? And rightly so. You're the professional.

George 58:22

Exactly. This is what I'm saying. Establish yourself as a professional. You have to go down that path and just go, no, I am the best, because when you are that, people will believe you. I like But you have to believe it first. Yeah, exactly. Like when you go to a heart surgeon, you're not like, nah, come on, let me ask chat. You know, they say you've got a problem with your heart. Come on, mate. Just let me ask Claude. Let me jump on Claude. Hey, he's telling me this. Is there no? It should cost about$10,000, not$50. You know, like you're gonna believe the expert because they've dedicated their life and their profession to that part of the body. Same with you in your field of construction, whether it's renovations, townhouses, volume homes, whatever it is. And I I also say this at a builder summit, and I haven't said it for a while. Somewhere out there right now, today, is the most expensive builder in the country. He makes more money, or she makes more money than anyone else. And it's not me. And it pisses me off.

Robby 59:18

And someone's paying them. Someone's paying them. Someone's paying them.

George 59:22

And they're they're probably saying thank you each and every time.

Robby 59:25

Yeah.

George 59:26

Okay, so why isn't that you? Now go and model that person. Go and look at what they're doing differently. There's clues everywhere in every industry, in everything. I bought my wife a$5,000 bag last Christmas. Okay. I could have gone and bought her a same bag that looked very similar, in my opinion, from Kmart for 20 bucks. Okay. She'd probably divorce me. But regardless, I'm saying functionally, the bags perform the same way and do the same thing. Okay, arguably the$5,000 one is ridiculous because it's so small. It's like, what the fuck is that? Yeah, yeah. Like the other Kmart bag, this is big. I can put like a laptop in there and it fucks up, you don't care. Yeah, exactly. Go buy another 50. And still save money. But, but, but, but the way that bag makes her feel. The way she's perceived holding that bag, the way that people will interact with her because she's got that bag. I'm gonna say something. The other day I went to Central Coast and I hired a car. And I was driving a Subaru. I don't know what what model it was, whatever it was. But I felt it was just some four-cylinder car. I felt less manly driving that car.

Robby 1:00:48

Subaru's target market is lesbians.

George 1:00:51

Well, there you go. Yeah. There you go. Makes sense. So done. I'm pretty sure.

Robby 1:00:56

Maybe that's true, yeah.

George 1:00:57

But I don't even know. But I felt that if regardless, even if it's a Mitsubishi, a Mitsubishi or a Toyota, whatever it was, yeah. I would still I still felt less manly driving that car. Why?

Robby 1:01:08

Less manly.

George 1:01:08

Yeah, I think I just didn't feel like even from a status point of view, I just didn't feel because I wasn't my feel status. It could be more status. Yeah, status. I think that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was driving this car and it's like, all right, no one noticed me, no one looked at me. I didn't, but I just didn't feel like, hey, I feel like a bit of a I don't want this to sound like I'm materialistic because I'm real, I'm not at all. But I did feel that way driving an inferior car to what I normally drive every single day. And I found that quite interesting, that thought. I'm like, well, why do I feel this way? Well, my car that I actually drive day to day, that makes me feel a certain way. I'm willing to go and pay more money to feel that way. I have an emotional connection to that brand. I have all these things associated with a car that makes me feel that way. So I want to go and buy that because I could very easily go and buy a Toyota Camry, which still gets me from A to B.

Robby 1:01:59

You do look like a Camry kind of guy.

George 1:02:02

I know, right? I know. But I thought that's David Silver. I'm gonna throw up. Um so the same concept is what happens in my brand, what happens in my life. So I now carry that whole idea into my business, my life, in everything. So all these things, all this success, it all leaves clues. You just got to follow those clues and model them. Not necessarily copy. I wouldn't say copy them, don't make them exactly the same. They need to be yours. Because if you just come and copy what I do at Pascal, well then congratulations, you've just extended Pascon's reach. Right? Go and make it your thing. Put your twist on it, model what other people are doing and make it your own. And execute. Execute.

Robby 1:02:47

Most people will listen and and you know do almost nothing.

George 1:02:53

Yeah. Well, do you think I think that's a huge aspect of it too? The lack of execution. You know, they know what they need to do, they know they need to do sit-ups to get a six-pack, they know they need to eat well, but they just don't do it. It's too hard, it's difficult. Yes, I never said at any time in this process, and as you know, it's not easy. Everything takes effort. Like, even yourself in your business, you often say to me, it's like, man, I always lose jobs to these guys that charge$400 a video. I can't compete with that. It's like if I the videos look like they were filmed on an iPhone.

Robby 1:03:26

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, but we also we don't compete with that.

unknown 1:03:30

Exactly.

Robby 1:03:31

We pay our videographers more than that.

George 1:03:32

Exactly. So it's like, what's your target market? Are you gonna go target that market and get really upset and be upset at them because they don't buy your product at$3,000 and they go for the$400 videographer? Of course not. You just understand that the quality of your product isn't at that level.

Robby 1:03:52

Yeah, and you understand who you're serving.

Execute And Share The Episode

George 1:03:55

Very good. Very good. Um, awesome episode, man. I think there's some really valuable insights there for people wanting to attract the ideal client.

Robby 1:04:06

You know, just gonna go and action it now. Yeah. Or do something about it. Work out is it is it what we're doing, is it who we're serving, is it the types of jobs? How do we how do we reposition what we're doing?

George 1:04:21

And it won't happen overnight.

Robby 1:04:25

Oh fuck no.

George 1:04:26

Yeah, that's the thing. People want instant gratification and it doesn't happen like that. Sorry.

Robby 1:04:30

And you'll probably doubt yourself a million times on the way.

George 1:04:33

Yeah. But you'll also get better if you're doing it a million times. Awesome. That's very true. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Pleasure as always.

Robby 1:04:42

Yeah, and if you if you know someone who might uh get some kind of benefit from this, you know, share this with them. Share this with them and tell them, hey, you're broke. Listen to this episode. Listen, you're brokey. You're brokey. So they told me to tell you you're a brokeie and uh listen to this episode because it's gonna make you unbrokey. You might learn something. All right, guys, thanks for listening. We will see you on the next one. Cheers, guys. Bye. Bye, bye.