How to Hire Great People

“Good people are hard to find” is one of the most repeated lines in business and it can quietly wreck your growth if you treat it as a permanent truth. We unpack what’s really going on when owners feel forced to do everything themselves, and how to escape that trap by building repeatable systems, training your team on the why, and delegating in a way that actually improves quality over time. If you’ve ever re-done an employee’s work and thought, “I should’ve just done it,” this conversation is for you.

We get into what it means to become a destination company, the kind of workplace where great candidates reach out before you even post a role. We talk recruitment pipelines, careers pages, keeping warm talent leads, and why “poaching” is just normal competition when you’re serious about building a high-performance team. You’ll also hear a practical hiring framework: where to post, how to screen applicants, what to listen for on a phone call, how to run structured interviews, and why real reference checks should come from the person they reported to, not the friend listed on the resume.

Then we shift into the AI impact on hiring and employment. AI tools, automations, and agents are moving work from step-by-step execution to outcome-based commands, which changes how many people you need, what skills matter, and how employee leverage explodes. We also cover AI risk and why you should think about data access and safety before letting new tools run wild. Subscribe, share the episode with a business owner, and leave a review with the biggest hiring lesson you’ve learned so far.

Transcript

Why Good People Feel Rare

George 0:00

Good people are hard to find, Mr. Robert. Can't find them anywhere. They're all duds. Every single person I've ever met that wants a job, that wants to work for me, they're all no good. I'm just gonna give up. I'm not gonna hire anyone, I'm just gonna do it all myself. What do you reckon about that?

Robby 0:17

I think that's a statement that's been said too many times.

George 0:19

Yep. And it's amazing how many people, you know, may not say that out loud or may not, you know, they they believe it. Have you thought it though? Have I thought it that it's hard to find good people? No, no, no, it is hard to find good people. No, not that.

Robby 0:34

Vince? Yeah. Have you thought uh fuck it, I'm just gonna do this one. Never MI hold on. That thoughts never crossed your mind. Not recently.

George 0:43

Not recently. Yeah, yeah. No, I've always are you talking about like in just life, or are you just talking in business? Like I'll just do it myself. I mean, there's been times where I'm like, fuck it, just let me do it. Yeah, there's been moments like that. But I've never I was never of the opinion when I started a business that this is a one-man band, I will do this myself. I was always of the opinion that I I realized that people I needed people early. Like it was never a belief of mine that it's I won't be employing people, or I'll just get the cheapest, or I'll just get the lowest of the barrel and do whatever.

Robby 1:15

Nah, more on the like, you know, when there's you try and delegate a certain task and then you're like, fuck, I'll just fucking do this for myself, man. Like, you know what I mean? This is the only way this is gonna get done properly is if I do it.

George 1:29

Yeah, there's been times like that for sure.

Teach The Process Not The Task

Robby 1:31

Yeah, for sure.

George 1:32

And that's been the truth. As in, I did do it properly and I got it done the way it needed to be done. But catch a man to fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. So that's the the concept behind it. Like yesterday I did a review with one of my employees on a package, and I'm like, oh yeah, come in here, let's do it together. I just wanted him to see how it was done. I didn't do it myself. I said, come up here. He didn't do anything, like he sat there and I'm like, here, look, this is our contract allowance, this is the extras that they've ordered, this add it this, add this up, add that up. That's the difference. Send him that variation. And he's like, Oh, yeah. So I just wanted him to see how it was structured. So he made sense in his mind. Because I said, I said to him, I'm like, what's the tile review? Okay, where do we sit money-wise? I don't know where we sit money-wise. How can I make a decision on what tiles we're going to use on the project? And I asked him to do the review. He hadn't done it. To me, it was a way of, I don't really understand what's allowed. And I said, well, come up, let's do it together. Sat down, did it together, went through that, and now it's his baby. I'm like, cool, you know the numbers. It's this much money extra, send it to the client, get it approved, order the tiles. So the next time he does that, next time I say, go do a review on whatever stone, or go do a review on painting or whatever it is, he knows the structure and what to do. He knows where to find the information, put it together and go. So now I don't have to sit there and do the review because I know it so well and I'm so good. Because what happens if I'm not here and the tiles need to be delivered on Monday and I'm away for three weeks? You know, tiles are gonna wait three weeks. Yeah, well, that's it. They either have to wait or I have to stop my holiday and get on the computer and do a tile review whilst everyone's in the pool. So they haven't made waterproof laptops yet, you know. So let's uh let's keep the pool laptops away from the swimming pool. Why? I don't know. Why haven't they done that? Speak to speak to your mate. Bill Gates. Yeah, Bill. Big Billy, big B, as we call him. So B Dog. Um, yeah, good employees are hard to find. Do you agree with that statement? I think yes. Yes, me too. They are hard to find. No one said it was gonna be easy, not impossible to find. I didn't say they don't exist, they definitely exist. I was a great employee when I worked for someone. I was fucking top stock. They looked at me and go, hey, this guy? Top of the barrel.

Robby 3:48

Okay, here's a good question. If we had to ask the people you worked for, what did George not do well?

George 3:58

Cool. Um nothing. Nothing, nothing, just topic.

Robby 4:02

Like how good he didn't give us anything to to pull into.

George 4:05

Not a single thing. Um, I mean, if I was being critical of myself, I'd probably say actioning items as promptly as I could have. So sometimes delayed things. A bit slow. Yeah, not slow in the I just maybe would, and I I still this creeps into my day-to-day operations now. The more difficult things I might leave an extra day, or I won't do it today, or I won't do it then. I don't do it in the moment. Procrastination. Yeah, there's an element I was still very productive and still got things done, but I feel for me there is really that I have to do like, no, do this. Like I've got to go nut. This is getting done. Because um I it might be um in my current role, in my current life now with my business, because there's so many things going on at the moment, like heaps, dude, heaps of like multiple businesses. I'm looking at investment opportunities and my I'm I'm scattered in multiple areas. So I kind of look at that and go, well, what do I need to do? Oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. So for me, it's really important, you know, trying to focus on a task and finish a task, but also equally important to be delegating to my employees to do things so I don't have to do them, and having the trust and belief and confidence that they're gonna be able to do that. Because if you don't, you're gonna be doing everything yourself, or they're making heaps of silly mistakes, then you've got to go back and fix it, or it costs time and money for them to go back and fix it.

Robby 5:28

Do you have a um well, where do you find good people? You have good people in your team?

Culture And Letting Great Staff Leave

George 5:33

Yeah, yeah, I do. We had a really good team. And it's, you know, one of my employees called me and he goes, you know, he goes, I'm just looking at my calendar. He goes, I've been here for four years and eight months. I'm like, fuck, I didn't even think it was that long. And he goes, Yeah, he goes, I've been here for that long. I'm like, that's awesome. Uh I think we've got a good team and a good culture. Like people enjoy when they're here working at the PASCON, particularly, they enjoy working here. And I like that. It's great that we build that camaraderie and that we build that environment around everyone. Now, that particular employee's um is leaving us at the end of this week, actually. He put in his resignation. And he's given me his resignation, and I'm like, hey man, like he was nervous coming in to see me and he's like, look, I gotta go, I gotta do this. I say, dude, like that's fine, like well done. We are all temporary custodians of our role at this company, every one of us, myself included. One day the company's either not exist or I'm not gonna exist, or I'm gonna sell it, or whatever's gonna happen. One day I won't be working here. And it's the same with every single person at this organization. So all I ever ask when people are working here is that they give me 110%, that they're honest, that they're they'll act with integrity, they enjoy the process, and we all have a common goal and move in the right direction. If the time comes when you're no longer working here, unless you've done something with malice or detrimental to me or the company, like you're you've got my good grace. I will support you, I will give you recommendations, referrals, whatever you need. And if the position becomes available in the future and you want to come back, hey, doors wide open, no worries. So I have that mindset with my employees. I'm I'm there to support them, I'm there to help them grow and become the best versions of themselves. And I also give them proper feedback in the perspective of if he came to me and said, Look, I've got this opportunity to go at this company, this is the role, this is the pay. I'd like to stay here, but you know, this is where I'm at at the moment. These are the conditions, these are the perks, these are so on and so forth. What do you think? I would honestly tell him, say, listen, I think that's a good opportunity for you. Move on. Yeah, I want you to say, I can't give you what they're giving you at the moment. We can definitely look at a progression path to get you to that space. But at the moment, we're not there, you're not there, whatever the conditions is or parameters, I would say that to him as well. So if in my honest opinion, I thought it was a really good opportunity, I would do that. I last yeah, yeah, last year, early last year, I no, or the year before, late the year before, whenever it was, I appointed a new GM at the company. Now that GM took got the position over another long-standing employee uh who was probably half expecting to get the GM role. And I told him I half expected him as well to leave the company after he didn't get that role because he'd been here almost since the beginning and then didn't get the role. But credit to him, he turned around and said, nah. And it was Simon because we've had the podcast episode with him as well. But Simon stuck it out and goes, no, fuck that, I'm gonna show George and stuck it out, um, worked even harder and really showed why he was deserving of the GM role once I got rid of the other person and he stepped into it. So um, again, I'm prepared for anyone to leave, but during the time that they're here, I'm gonna make sure that they become the best that they can possibly be. And the other thing I did say to this employer that just left recently, I said, I would like to think that just as a matter of consequence of you working with me here at Pascon and everything I'm doing at Builder Elite, the value of you as an employee in the market goes up. You know, I coach builders, business owners, some guys that are turning over$110 million projects, some guys that are turning half a million dollar projects. I coach everyone few and far between. And I give my team that level of experience as well. The fact that you've worked at Pascon on your resume will look really good to future employees when you go anywhere else. So I like that I've given him that. I said, look, I hope that I've helped you in that role. And I've always said to him, I said, hey, if you have a question when you leave, even if it's about your current company, give me a call, mate. Happy to have that conversation with you as a past mentor, advisor, whatever it might be.

Robby 9:34

So what do you what do you do to, you know, because we all um I guess most of the people listening to these probably own a business or want to own a business. And I think recruitment's probably one of the most underrated things that you can really get good at in your business. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like the the success of the business is going to be purely dependent on the people. Uh the term a company is a group of people. That's the definition, right? So okay, you lose a good one. What's what is what's George Pastis's next step steps? Yeah, great.

George 10:12

Good question. I think from early on actually, what yeah, in 2008 or 2009, Hawthorne won the grand final in 2008. No, it was earlier than that. Let's say 2007. So Hawthorne won the grand final in 2007. At the time, Jeff Kennett was the president of the Hawks, and he came out and made a statement saying we want in the next three years, we want 50,000 members, we want three premierships, we want this, this, and he came up with a whole range of things. And he goes, we want to be a destination club as well. Meaning we want to attract quality people to our organization. We want to attract quality players, quality admin, quality, you know, CEOs, GMs, presidents, coaches, everyone. We want to attract quality people. We want them to look at Hawthorne and go, I would love to work at an organization like Hawthorne. I looked at that, and this is before I owned a business. This is when I was working at Abbey Group. I looked at that and go, that's a fantastic way to look at business. He was treating the club like a business. And then when I started my own business, I had the same mindset with it. I said, I want to make Passcon a destination company. I want people to see me in the industry and be like, I would love to work for a company like Pascon. I would love to be here. So I then set out to make the company be that, to be a destination company. And as a result, I often get emails. Look, I'm I'll it won't be weekly, but say at least fortnightly from people saying, Hey, are you hiring? We'd love to have an opportunity to come here and work and so on and so forth. And just recently I hired someone, an apprentice that reached out, had a chat with him, and he's starting work next week. But yeah, I think just by the way that we hold ourselves, we deliver projects, we're perceived in the industry. The stuff now that I'm doing at Builder Elite, people would be like, like me as an employee, if I was an employee and I saw there was someone out there like myself teaching builders, I'm like, fuck, like, who better to go and work for? Someone like that. So, you know, the whole ecosystem of everything I'm doing, from the podcast to the business, to the construction companies, to consulting to building brand, all that sort of stuff. And then the systems and processes we put here, the culture we have here, makes us a destination company. So I think if anyone in business today is in business, you should have a mindset of trying to become a destination company, because then you will always forever attract the right people to your organization. One of those employees, I'm rambling on, but one of those employees that worked for me, it was a friend of his said, Hey, Pascal and a hiring, really good company, you should apply. And he ended up getting the job.

Robby 12:46

The um the other side to that, you know, Grant Cartoon says half the marketing you do is for your team. You know, half the marketing you do is internal. Like the the reason you market is not just to get clients, the reason you market is to showcase your business to your team and to yourself and to the people that are coming in.

George 13:09

And say, how good are we? Look at this, is it great?

Robby 13:11

Dude, I look I look at it like this, right? Um there's two sides to business. There is uh people coming in, jobs coming in, which is clients, and then there's deliverables, which you need team to do. And I think you should always be filling both of those pipelines. You know what I mean? You should have always have a you should have a recruitment pipeline, you know, like actually, funnily enough. Uh and we're talking about this subject because we're both uh currently uh doing in the process of this at the moment. And I've got my team now building careers pages on every website. And I'm like, hey, like why are we not making it easy for people to engage with us for this? So what's a career page? A page on the website that says you want to work with us? Yeah, career. Yeah, you want to work with us? Cool. Put an application, tell us what you can do, submit your CV, and if we've got something or we can make something, we'll get in touch.

George 14:09

That's cool.

Robby 14:09

It's like, why would I not start building that pipeline now?

George 14:11

Can you do that for me too? Sure. Thanks. Thanks, uh OCD. Hey Claude.

Robby 14:17

Hey Claud. I will uh I will set the task for you right now. By the end by the end of the podcast.

George 14:23

By the end of the podcast, by the end of the podcast, it'll be done. It'll be done. Um hey, as silly as that sounds, it's not as silly as that sounds, guys. This is a topic for another day, but you fucking watch. Speaking to your mate, say, hey, just in a podcast with George, get this done, update his website, do XYZ, and then you get out of the podcast, like jump on Pascon.com.au and there's a career page there.

Robby 14:49

That's real.

George 14:50

It's fucking not fake.

Robby 14:52

It's very real. Um, but yeah, that's that's another thing. And I'm like, okay, cool. Like, not only okay, we've got a healthy, you know, uh client lead flow, that's great. But like we need to service the other side of the business. You know what I mean? There is no business unless you got like a software business or you you do, you know, automations or AI and stuff. And yes, AI is gonna replace some of the employee element for deliverables. Yes. But there's still something you need on that side to deliver. And it's probably not at the point yet that it can completely manage deliverables end-to-end. Um, but I think you need to be feeding into it.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

And that's a topic we should cover today as well. Well about the AI. Let's get into that in a second. Sure.

Robby 15:32

But it's I think you you are not going to you're not going to grow it from one side only, and you should be growing both ends. You should be feeding into your client pipeline and then you should be feeding into your recruitment pipeline. Yeah. You know, even if you don't hire someone today, like and you have the conversation today, and it's like maintain the relationship. Like that's a hot lead. Yes. Someone that you know is a gun in your industry.

George 15:55

100%.

Robby 15:56

Yeah, like maintain the relationship. Keep in touch with them, send them a message every now and again. It's a job. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. That's why, that's why there's recruiters.

George 16:04

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Robby 16:05

Because it's a fucking job.

George 16:06

Yeah, it's a pain. Yeah. And you're but you're employing them for their service to to cut the shit out ultimately, because you, you know, so you're applying for a role now, or sorry, you're getting um applications for a role, and you've got 70 to 100 people that have applied, and you're like, you could have sit there and go through that. Whereas a recruiter might cut it down to 10 and say, here, we've had a hundred, but here's ten that you need to look at.

Robby 16:25

Yeah, a good recruiter. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Um, the other side to that is like the other side to that is you know, if you can if you can market well and you can recruit well, you can grow a business pretty significantly. Yeah. Like the operations element, whilst it's still important, it's I would dare say that the people who own the biggest building companies aren't the best builders. Fucking bang on. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because building a business is not building a house, a house or a property. You know what I mean? Um, and it's about understanding the things that you're actually building and saying, okay, cool, we need we need a marketing strategy, we need a way to sell them, we need a deliverable, we need recruitment, and we need to market and manage this whole thing so it's been burned out.

Recruitment Pipelines And Poaching

George 17:17

Well, that's the other thing, yeah. So it's one thing getting the pe the people in. But you touched on it before, just keeping your options open. There's definitely people out in the industry that you're going to connect with and go, hey, that that guy might be a gun. That guy could be cool in the future. And we've done that recently. We've got projects in the pipeline, we've got things happening here and there. And my GM was saying he was speaking with a carpenter who's currently working with another carpentry company. And he's like, hey, you know, I go towards he's a gun. This guy's a really good carpenter, really good at what he does, and he's looking to step into more of a senior role. And he Simon had a chat with him, said, Hey, we might be looking in the second half of this year for someone to join the team. We've got some projects that are likely to land. Are you interested? He goes, Yeah, fucking oath. So, all right, cool. We'll we'll be in touch. So you've got someone who's worked for your company as a contractor before, really good, knows the team, does his does the things here and there, presented with an opportunity. It may mean nothing. He could go get a job somewhere else and go and get a supervisor role before then. But you've got the option there and you're exploring that and you're looking at growing your team. So yeah, I think that's a massive thing. Poaching is not a bad thing. People see it as taboo, and it's not not a good thing to do. I will poach any motherfucker that I think is great for the team. And I did that recently. I went and poached, but anyway, I didn't it fell through. I won't go into the details, but it fell through, but I I had no shame. The good the director called me, or the boss of the company called me up saying, Oh, you're doing this. Yeah, like fair game, man. Oh, they called you up. Yeah, I had the chat with him. I won't go into it, I won't go into it, but because David Team Vacker No, so they they were effectively trying to source a fee for his services because I've poached him from their company. It's like, oh, well, you need to give us 12 grand because you've poached him through our company. I said, No, I've never had an agreement with you in place. I go, that's his decision if he wants to come here. I haven't signed anything to say I'm gonna give you X amount of dollars to for if I take one of your employees. So I go, why would I do that? And I'll go, I'm not giving it to you. Now, it ended up that he had an agreement with a company about that. So I couldn't, I said, mate, you've got to do what you've got to do, but the position's there. If you want it, I'm I'll go into bat. I don't care if he wants to come and at me and say you shouldn't uh do that or you owe me money. I said, No, I don't, I haven't signed anything. Piss off. Anyway, that fell through. That's fine. But I unapologetically will poach someone from another company if I think they're good. And I think that's just business. Like that's not anything personal. I'm not trying to be detrimental to you and your company. I'm just trying to get the best people involved at the organization.

Robby 19:41

What if people kept poaching your employees?

George 19:43

Yeah, great. So give them a reason not to leave. Okay, I'm sure that's happened before. I'm sure people have come to me, have come to my employees and said, hey, we'll come over here, we'll do it. We will give you this much money, we'll do that, we'll do this, and so on and so forth. Go for it, man. Like, absolutely. Come and poach anyone. If you're listening, come and get my team, come get them. Because I'm totally fine with anyone leaving. I don't want them to, but if they do leave, that's fine. We replace a soldier with a soldier. We'll get someone else in place to do that role. If I have to step in and do it for a few weeks, cool, I'll do that. I'll make it happen. But uh aside from that, build a culture around your organization that doesn't encourage people wanting to search or leave or do anything so that when they do get approached and said, hey, come and join my team, they're like, nah, we're good. And going back to the whole Hawthorne thing, I mean, even recently, this has still been ingrained in their culture, and I'm sure it's with other clubs too. They had a player, Josh Weddle, it was in the news, and they said they offered him, Essendon offered him$10 million over five years or some shit like that to join their team. Um, three, four weeks later, he signed with Hawthorne again for a lesser amount than what Essendon were doing. That's culture. That's I want to be around a successful club. I'm gonna go to Essendon, bottom of the barrel, who fucking won't win a premiership for the next 20 years, or I can stay here and win a premiership, be a BNF, do whatever you're gonna do. I don't know. He's a young player. How much less? I I don't even know. I don't know what he got at Hawthorne, but I know I I heard on the from what I read that it was less. A very young player.

Robby 21:10

Very questionable decision.

George 21:11

Yeah, it is. It is, but but why would he have gone stayed here for less? To me, that says it's the culture aspect of it. He enjoys his, like the teammates, the club, the facility, they've got brand new facilities. We're offering you opportunities for leadership roles, you're gonna win premierships at Hawthorne. Like there's things there for him that are that probably equate to more than just a dollar sign at the end of the day. And people take that into consideration. I think it's value. When value exceeds price, people will make a decision. Hawthorne might be offering him more value than just the dollar sign of what he gets in his bank account every week. And I think you can look at your team, your company in the same way. Like you can learn a lot from other organizations on how to manage your team because that's the next thing. You get the team in, then you gotta manage them, then you've got to have employer contracts in place. You gotta have, you know, if you've Big enough you have HR. Whatever it's gonna be. What a waste of space HR is. Um just a side note. Side note product.

Robby 22:09

Um put them in the same category as WorkSafe.

George 22:12

We love WorkSafe. Of course. We love WorkSafe, they're our favorite.

Robby 22:16

And uh what are they called now? HBC, B H C B P C.

George 22:21

Oh yeah.

Robby 22:23

We're getting you're touching just just that just a real uh side note. I'm not sure you may have had this sent to you yesterday. I'm not gonna don't read it, but I'll just I'll take you that.

George 22:35

Um, I haven't sent that. But I've seen they put posts like that up all the time, and I reckon it's the biggest wank going around.

Robby 22:42

So this is a post by the uh BPC about someone who they and I say do you know who is it?

George 22:46

No, I don't know this guy. Oh, yes, I do. Wow. Oh, how funny. Yeah, oh no shit. Yeah, I had that sent to me last night. Oh I was like, Wait, oh that is funny. Not funny, but I we know that guy. Yeah. So long story short, the see, I disagree with what the BPC are doing here. And they've been doing this for a few years now. Yeah, they put up posts where they say immediate suspension, immediate this, or this person's being deregistered. I'm like, you're part of the fucking problem, you idiots. Right? Go out there and how about you be productive in that space and create content that's going to educate and improve the industry rather than just going, he's shit, he's shit, we found him. How good are we? We're saving the industry. You're a bunch of fucking idiots, if you ask my opinion, because you're not, you're, you're just reactive. You're not proactive in the space. You should be the leader in the industry, you're the building authority. Okay. You should, yes, I agree that there's people out there doing the wrong thing and they should have rules that they need to abide by, but to go and do social media posts about it, that to me just says reactive organization. It says they don't really care about the industry. We're just here to protect the consumer, not the industry. And I don't think that's uh they are consumer focused.

Robby 23:58

Aren't they for consumers?

George 23:59

Yeah, but that's a bad thing. Like you're the authority, you're the authority of having that authority. I think there's a level that has to be, yes. So I've got, as I said, I've got no issues with builders and trade professionals that are registered. Um, when they're doing the wrong thing, they've got to be pulled up on it, yes, because it's lots of money, it's people's livelihood, you know, it's often people's life savings when it comes to construction. So, yes, there needs to be rules and regulations that have to be adhered to. So I've got no issues with that, but I'd rather him go, okay, this pool contractor, this builder, this plumber has been deregistered for this reason. So, guys, it's really important that when you're signing off compliance certificates, you've got to do this, this, this, this, and this, right? Because otherwise, you might not know this, but you are actually in breach when you issue a certificate before this is fixed off. Whatever it might be. Oh, wow. Okay, add more value. Add more value. Like you're an you're an authority in the industry in the space. You know, they just go there and say, Oh, look, we suspended this person, how good are we? Oh, we did this, how good are we? I'm like, man, you're you're detrimental to the industry. And that's why what I do with the builder elite stuff is so powerful because I'm going out and teaching people, do this in your business, do these things in your business because it will help you in the long run. Um have you ever had a bad employee?

Robby 25:19

Yeah. I think everyone. Yeah. I think if you don't have if if you think if you think if you if you think you've had a great run hiring, I think you're just accepting mediocrity a lot of the time. Do you know what I mean? I think if you think like, hey, I've never had to fire anyone, I've always, you know.

George 25:41

Not holding yourself to a high enough standard. Hey? Not holding yourself to a high enough standard or your team to a high enough standard.

Robby 25:46

You're you're letting the bar slide way too much. Um I So how do you go about getting rid of a bad employee? I'll do a quick dude. So even now when I I'll I'll I'll walk you through our recruitment process. Okay. First thing I do, obviously, I I put up an ad, either LinkedIn or Seek. That's my go-to's. Um if I don't kind of have and I don't I don't have a huge recruitment pipeline at the moment. I'm trying to build it. Um, but I'll put up an ad on on LinkedIn or Seek. And hey, honestly, like LinkedIn's good, but Seek is fucking great.

George 26:20

Yeah, right.

Robby 26:21

I don't care what anyone says. LinkedIn, uh Seek is fucking great. Like I I've never put an ad up on Seek and had every single time I've done it, I've had a ridiculously almost too much.

George 26:32

Yeah, and there I think just the only thing with Seek is you're getting a lot of unqualified people applying for the role.

Robby 26:38

Ask the right questions. Yeah, it's like cool man. Like, do you have four years' experience? Do you have this? Do you have that? And if they answer no, instant disqualification, don't show me.

George 26:45

So that does that on seek through that?

Robby 26:47

It's built in.

George 26:48

Oh, that's good.

Robby 26:48

You tell them, like, hey, these are the questions I want.

George 26:50

You got that many applicants still, and they all had those things that you were ticked. So there's still a lot of applicants for that particular role that have ticked you all your boxes.

Robby 26:58

No, no, no. So we had like so we're advertising at the moment for a videographer role and um Apply within. Yeah, apply within. Link below. Not if Bother Tunis comes out, someone will be hired. Yeah. Um we had a hundred applicants in six days.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah.

Robby 27:15

Which is significant. But like of those hundred, I think like twenty-six were disqualified immediately. Oh, okay. So then you gotta go through the city. Yeah. Um yeah, and it's like, and you choose what the the parameters are. Anyway, so add, get it out. First thing we do, screen the resumes. I look for two things, right? Skill set. So can they do what they're saying? Yeah. Because I I put up a tweet today. Skill is important. Yeah, yeah. Fucking hope it is. I put up a tweet today. I'll read it to you right now. The tweet says this. By the way, Twitter, wild platform. Just in case, for those of you that are not on it. I mean wild. I can't connect with it at the moment. I use it, but I just wild platform. I don't consume anything. It's almost too much. It is. Uh I put up a tweet today, seven hours ago. It is amazing that people will apply for a job they have absolutely no skill set for. I think it's wild. Yeah. Like they'll come in and apply for a role and haven't done anything in the case.

George 28:12

You almost get him in. Like, hey, show me. Like, you've applied for a videographer role. Like, show me some of your stuff. You almost want to hire them. Yeah.

Robby 28:19

And sit there, like, can you believe you got the role? Yeah. Oh my god. That'd be good. And just do the whole thing and sit there. Can you believe it? You had no skill set, but we chose to give you a crack. Out of everyone. And you can't do the job, and you're still here. You don't know how to turn the camera on.

George 28:35

Shit. Hey, that would be that'd be great content. Be great content. I might do it. You find yourself a fair work pretty quickly. You can film that too. Why? I would take them to fair work. Yeah.

Robby 28:46

And be like, he's not able to do the work.

George 28:48

Yeah, he lied on his resume. I want my money back.

Robby 28:51

He's like give me back your super. Pay for my seek ad. Um anyway, so seek ad, uh, screen the things. Yep. So look for skill set and I look for consistency in job. Yeah.

George 29:03

Uh so has he had 43 or she had 43.

Robby 29:06

Yeah, like if they if they've moved every six months, I'm not interested. Yeah. Um, but if I see that they've stuck in one job for like four years, then move to another one for six years, I'm like, cool, like this is this is this person can stick to a job. Yeah. You know what I mean?

George 29:18

Yeah, it shows a level of grit, of consistency, yeah, of loyalty.

Robby 29:22

Uh, then I do a phone screening. So if they pass those two tests, I'll get them on a call, have a conversation, usually ask four questions. Um, if they're hot working, I want to know why they're looking for new work. Like, you got a job. What's up, what's got you looking for work? Find out what they're after. Um, find out what they're looking for, find out if they know about the company, and then if they talk like a human, and the amount of people that don't talk like a human is wild.

George 29:46

When you say human, what do you mean?

Robby 29:49

Just like this.

George 29:49

Yeah, so like, hey, Rob is like, hi, it's Robbie from Legacy. Hey, what up, bro? How are you?

Robby 29:54

Uh, you just get some people where you can't make out what they're saying, or they waffle and they waffle and waffle and what and then you're like, we're not gonna be able to talk together. Yeah, like you are taking this, should be a 10-minute call, and I'll tell you to come in for a in-person interview, and you've been talking for 22 minutes, and I have my question too. You know what I mean? Um, yeah, and you you can work out pretty quickly if you want to take it further. Yeah, uh, then I do an in-person interview, then I do I do this thing I learned from this book called Top Grading, and I get people to tee up interviews with so part of the interview process, I go through their work history. Oh, cool, you know, George, where'd you work? Oh, you worked at uh Abbey Group last. Cool, who are you reporting to? Oh, John, can you still speak to John? Yeah, cool. What would John say about you? Oh, he'd say you're the best. Yeah, awesome. All right, cool. Can you call John and tee up an interview? And then and I've had people say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then message me or say leave. Oh, changed my mind about the role. It's like, yeah, did you?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Yeah.

Robby 30:51

Um yeah, and then I do that, and then we do the reference checks. So not who they put as a reference, who you reported to last at the role. Yeah, so I want to know. Yeah, that person you were reporting to, cool, call them. They they said you were great. That's amazing. They're gonna be so happy to hear from you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Call them and let's get this up a 15-minute zoom call. I just want to see what they think about you, really. You know, and were you close? Were you way off? Um Yeah, and then if they all, you know, green lights from there and there's no uh red flags, we'll hire the individual. But they go through some six groups, yeah.

George 31:30

That's right. It's a it's a great process. Well, why not? Make them fucking jump. Okay, it's not easy to find good people, right? That whole process wasn't easy because the easiest thing would be like, hey, give me your thing. Yep, good. Okay, you look good. All right, you hired, start Monday. That's easy. But what are you gonna get through the door?

Robby 31:45

And then people say, like, you do you you gotta feel it. It's like, no, no, have a fucking process around this.

DISC Profiles And Hiring For Fit

George 31:50

I think skill is important. I like the aspect of skill being able to deliver on that as a measurable to employ someone. I want to know you are fucking talented at what you do. Again, let's go back to a football team. Are you trying to win the grand final? All right, you're trying to win the grand final. Every day in business, we're trying to win the final. We want to be the best, we want to make the most amount of money. Are you going to do that with first-round draft picks? No. You have to go out and poach the best player, pay the good money, get attract the right people to your organization and pay them what they're fucking worth. Good conditions, good culture, good money, all those sorts of things. And that way you're going to win the grand final. That's what business is about.

Robby 32:30

Yeah, and I also reckon you hire differently for different um positions.

George 32:36

Absolutely. I I saw this thing the other day, or some I was speaking to someone about it. I reckon it'd be great for employers if they could force people to do a disc profile as part of the application. People do. No, it's actually a it's actually you're not allowed to through discriminate. It's a discriminative uh measure. Exactly. Why? What's what we're fair, that's what fair work put forward. You can't do it because you're discriminating against that person that has a certain leadership characteristics or communication later. Yes, exactly what I'm doing. Yes, exactly.

Robby 33:04

I'm 100% doing that.

George 33:07

And that's what they but then that's what they're saying. You can't do that. You have to be equal playing field has to be on merit.

Robby 33:13

Oh, then then fucking pull a pull a name out of a hat and let me I have to take that employee. Exactly. Aren't you discriminating when you aren't you discriminating when you read a resume? Aren't you discriminating when you hire someone based on experience? Aren't you discriminating when like all of that? Wait, hold on. Do you discriminate by location because you won't hire them because they live in Sydney?

George 33:30

Yes, exactly. So you're discriminating. Wow. Yeah, George. I'm bad guy. I'm a bad guy. I'm gonna call fair work. Do them right now. Call them. If you apply for a job from me. But well, seriously, what a crock of shit. It is, it's fucked. But 100%. 100%. Ask chat. Ask Groc or whatever the fuck you ever can ask, Claude. So um ask them all. Get them all on all the apps and see if they give you the same answer. Let's find out. One second. Yeah. So you do that, I'll talk.

Robby 33:59

Um Kelly, just do it live. Do it talk to him. Do you want me to do you want me to um get him to talk back? Yeah, absolutely. Hey Claude, can you tell me if uh you are allowed to do disc profiling as part of a job interview in Australia?

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Good question. So here's the thing. Disc profiling itself isn't banned in Australia, but there are important constraints. You can use it as part of your recruitment process, but it has to be relevant to the role. Candidates need to know up front that it's part of the assessment, and you can't use it as the sole basis for hiring or rejecting someone. The key legal risk is discrimination.

George 34:41

There you go. Oh my god. There you go. How fucked is that? And some the other day I had a person send a resume through to me and he attached his disc profile. I'm like, you fucking legend. Good on you. I almost wanted to hire him just because of that. See, for those of you that don't know what disc profiles are, do some research. Go sort it out. Go on Google, sort it out.

Robby 35:00

Yeah, it's a behavioral profiling method.

George 35:02

That's right. It's a behavioral profiling method. So some people are really detail oriented, some people are high level, some people are systems oriented and process driven. And you can hire what your business needs by knowing what profiles they are. So for example, I'm the type of person that likes to interact with people, as in I enjoy the interaction, but I'm also a person that doesn't like lots of detail. Just give me the high-level facts. I want to know the details being taken care of. I just don't want to hear it. I don't want to do it. So when I'm employing my PA, for me, I want someone that's going to be really detailed, really process driven, and be able to do all those things that I don't want to do. Now, if I had a person that I was employing that was really um just wanted to talk all day, just wanted to know high-level numbers, that's not really interested in details, we would clash. Our role that wouldn't work for me. I couldn't have that person there because all they'd want to do to me, all they'd want to do all day is talk.

Robby 35:56

You know, shut the fuck up and do some work. I think that's a big mistake people make as well, because we tend to like those who are like us. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So all started like you have an interview, you don't really have a process, you go through a whole bunch of stuff, and then you're like, you know what? I just connected with this person. Yeah. They were like, we were the same. Yeah, we gelled, we gelled. So I'm gonna hire them. Yeah. And then you end up with another you. Yeah.

George 36:16

And that's a big mistake. Yes, I completely agree. Completely agree. So I think disc profiling is good. If you're an employee looking for a job, I think you should go do a disc profile yourself and attach it as part of your resume. I reckon that's so for those people that know what they're looking at and what they're looking for, I reckon that's fantastic. Fantastic, really good stuff. That's a that dude. That's a big call. I give but that's because you like it. I like it.

Robby 36:36

I think it's still good though. So if you're applying for a job at Pascon.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, do it. Okay, we'll maybe we'll say that. You're applying for a job.

Robby 36:43

Yeah, because like imagine you don't know what that is, and someone sends you this whole okay. Yeah, yeah. Do you know the other one? Like the IMDJ. Do you know what it no? Come on, man. Um something Briggs, Briggs Hicks Hicks, something.

George 36:56

Maybe I'll probably do know it once you say it. But anyway, you're mumbling something like you're talking about switched off ten minutes ago. Um so yeah, I think that I like that person because I I've done the disc profiling for myself, for some of my team members, and it was a really powerful thing to see what they're like and how they operate. And then you can hire on that basis, which I reckon is pretty cool.

Robby 37:17

Myers Briggs. Myers Briggs. Yeah, good old advice. Yeah, did you not have it? No, of course. Come on, man. You never seen this? Yeah, look, ah, you can't see, huh? You never seen like INTJ or ENTJ or ENFJ? No, I don't think. You know how there's like the four categories and sort of 16 different outcomes you can have. No, I haven't seen that. You've never seen that in your whole life.

George 37:38

The personality types, no. But again, it's a similar process.

Robby 37:42

Perfect, perfect. Because imagine someone sends you this and they sit there, George, INFJ. Yeah, yeah. Then you'd be like, What? Uh F U C K O double F.

George 37:51

That's what I'd really say. Um that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Okay, applying a Pascal, just give you this graph. Nowhere else, nowhere else. Um, I also think attitude is a skill. Yes. I think attitude is a skill. People are like, oh, hire attitude. Yeah, uh like you can hire someone, hire someone based off a good attitude, and you know, you can teach them the skills.

Robby 38:16

Yeah, so the reason why they do that is because it's a hard skill to train.

George 38:20

Yeah, very much so. Yeah, very much so. I think culture will have a lot to do with that in your business, but I I would love to get a person that's a fucking gun at what they do, but maybe just has a bit of an attitude issue. All right. So maybe on site, they're very abrupt, like they're a high D, but they're very direct. Oi, get this shit done, let's fucking go. Right? And he's like, oh, okay. You know, that I don't like to be spoken to. Oh, then I can come in and train him on the attitude side of things and say, hey, listen, this person, great at what he does, he won't react well to you hammering him like that. You don't have to put rainbows and lollipops on everything, but let's take the different approach to do it like this. You'll get a lot more out of people in general when you give them that little bit more respect, and I think it's a powerful tool for you to use to get what you want to do. Do you think do you think that's easier to train than the skill? No, no, I think that is harder for sure. Because you're you're breaking people's habits of how they've operated for the last 20 years, and especially in construction, I see as a foreman, for example. A foreman, old school foreman's gonna be, this is how we fucking do it, do what I say. And that's my old man's like that, and I've had to pull him up on it multiple times.

Robby 39:22

When is he coming on the podcast?

George 39:24

Um, next week. Seriously. I'm gonna get him on next week. Call him right now. I'll do it. I'll do it. He'll be upset if we're calling him out of business hours and probably send me a message.

Fire Fast With Probation Systems

Robby 39:33

5 03 to 4 work, aren't you? The laws came out last year, or the year before, whenever it was. Oh shit, that's funny. Uh yeah, but so so breaking the habit of of attitude is is quite it's a it's a hard uh skill to just but it is one there. Yeah, I think you can I think you can fix anyone with a good enough incentive. Yeah. I take that back. I don't think you can. Just thought about someone that I was trying to fix for ages. No. Um, some people just have the worst habits. And then that's great, get rid of it. Yeah, oh 100%. You know, and that that is the next fucking step in the process in like fire fast, dude. Yeah. And so like we hire we hire um uh overseas stuff, people in the Philippines, from Pakistan, etc. And uh of them, I always do the same where I'm like, cool, you're on a one-month trial. Like your one month trial, and if you fit in, then you'll have a job. And if you don't, then you won't. You know, you you'll get paid for a month and see you later. Yeah, thanks for your time. Um the reason why I do that is because I want two things. I want to see their best, like so they're gonna work their hardest in that month, and what they've done is they've just set the bar if they want the job. Um, the other element is I want to be reminded to fire them. Because like I gotta now make a decision at one month. Because what will happen otherwise is you get so caught up in everything else, and you'd be like, you know what? Like they're just there, and like stuff's kind of happening, and so I just leave them. I've got because like, dude. You know what I've got uncomfortable with? Fires burning and you're sitting there, like, all right, like there's gonna be there's always fires. There is, there's always fires, and you just gotta say, okay, cool, what fire am I tackling today?

George 41:19

You're a firefighter, so you end up being.

Robby 41:21

Yeah, and it's like that that leaky bin or leaky bucket, that's okay. I think I heard this from um when we went to the US and I think Layla Hormosy said it.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

And she said, Shout out, Layla.

Robby 41:34

Yeah, when you're coming on. Uh, she said there's fires everywhere. She's like, you just have to be able to distinguish what's the bin is on fire versus the room is on fire. You know what I mean? She's like, and if the bin's on fire and the room's on fire, I'm gonna go sort out the room, the bin will be fine. Like I can sort out the bin later. Um she gave an example like that, and I thought that was really profound. And I was like, because that's that's the truth in your business, you know. And if you don't set the reminder to go back and fire this individual, you can sometimes let it slip for too long, and then all of a sudden they're out of their probation period, and then you've got to jump through hoops and go through this whole process and make sure because there is a process for it, right? You gotta go and make sure you've got documented warnings and go the other way. And then you gotta do performance improvement plans and blah blah blah. It's like you gotta do everything to make sure this person succeeds, yeah. Otherwise, you're the devil, yeah.

George 42:26

In which is which is wrong. Oh, thank you.

Robby 42:29

Because if you said I was leaving the podcast, it's oh dude, it's it's like I also the other thing, the the the flip side, like I think this is a an Australia thing. We look after employees too much, we look after tenants too much. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like you're you're s we we thrive on serving the the weak person. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like why? That's right. Like it's not you're we're paying you to do a role, yeah, and then they don't do the role, and then you get rid of them, and then you get in trouble. And you're like, What the fuck? What is this?

Policies Contracts And Risk Management

George 43:03

Yeah, yeah, it's so it is so far that side, it's just absolutely ridiculous, which is so why again, let's talk compliance for a second. So important to have employee contracts in place, so important to have employee handbooks, so important to have company policies in place. You know, we had this thing, we had group chats for WhatsApp, and I noticed that it was becoming too friendly in the sense of it became it started to become a boys chat. Hey, boy, like check this chick out, you know, and I'm like, okay. If I was with my mates, be like, yeah, mad ass, right? Fantastic. Whatever it is. But it was inappropriate for that con for that for for a work thing. And I'm like, okay. So I deleted the group chat and I created a new one, but I actually I then sent set up a policy around the use of the group chat that this is for business purposes only, it's for operational stuff, it's not for anything outside. No, no, no sexual anything on there, no derogatory anything on there, no racist on there. Like, so I set the rules and I go, if you comp like, and I was like, the views of the people that the opinions and views on this chat are those of the individual and not a reflection on the company. Now, most people wouldn't think about doing anything like that ever. Until it fucks up. Until it fucks up. Now, nothing happened at my company, right? And again, all the guys are cool and everyone's great, but until it's that one person who go, you know what, you're not performing, and then they go, Cool, screenshot. By the way, look at what George sent. Oh, look at what Simon sent, look at what Robbie sent. They're harassing me. That's sexual harassment. I felt bullied. I felt threatened. I had to comply because I was scared to lose my job. And then you're fucked. Just for the record, I was not in any of these groups. Robbie was the creator of these group chats, Your Honor. He was the admin. Just for good, fair web places. Just little things like that. You've got to have all your systems and policies in place because I coach so many, I've coached so many builders over the years, and even people that have just attended our events, where they've got none of that shit in place. I've got no contracts. But no one teaches you that. I know. That's the killer. Like no one teaches it. So where do people learn this? You've got to go out and seek. So you're either gonna have to go to a some HR company or a solicitor or go to platforms. There are platforms out there like Lawpath, which you use. You can get that's great. Yeah, you can get which is an online platform, not like not sponsoring the event this show or anything, but you know, we use it. We're happy to promote things that yeah that benefit our lives and business.

Robby 45:26

And if you use the code Robbie20, yeah, you won't save anything.

George 45:29

But you should try it anyway. Yeah, you get it you'll get you'll get 20 20% off rumbies.

Robby 45:36

I'll give you$20. Yeah. I'll give you 20 cents. Um, but back on that, uh, back on that note, you know where else I could go, George?

Builder Summit Invitation

George 45:44

Where? Where could they go in May? I reckon if you're some if you are interested in learning some systems, some processes and policies that are gonna grow your business, I reckon you could come to a builder summit, which we are holding in May in Sydney and in Melbourne. And it's gonna be a great day out where you get to spend it with myself, special guests like Mr. Robert here. We'll teach you all the things about branding and AI. I'm gonna teach you all things that you need to learn about scaling your business. It's a free event as well. We make it easy for you to get there. I don't even charge you. But if you do want a paid experience, you can pay for that too and get a VIP experience. And there's also a great door prize to be won. 20 or no, it's not 20. I think it's like an eight-piece Milwaukee toolkit this time. Milwaukee. You're not both I almost went against it went to the enemy. So if that's something you're interested in, you can click the link below and register your details and secure your seats. It's gonna be, I reckon, our biggest event to date in both cities. So looking forward to that.

Robby 46:41

It'll be very good. Now, you did mention just then, you mentioned AI, and I did mention AI before you said I want to talk to you about that.

AI Agents And The New Workforce

George 46:49

Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I want to employ someone right now. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't.

unknown 46:54

Why?

George 46:54

Because AI is taking over the world. AI is going to take everyone's jobs and they're all fucked. And guess what AI doesn't do? Take you to fair work because you called it a fucking idiot.

Robby 47:04

For now. You don't think we're going to get to the point where people are going to be like, you know, uh AI deserves rights too. They have feelings too.

George 47:13

Yeah, you'll get the lefties coming out to play, yeah. Justifying their existence. Um, LGBTQ AI. It's going to be more alphabet. Shit. Um okay. Um, yeah, okay, let's talk about that. So many people are now thinking, oh, AI's taking my job, AI is gonna be the way of the future. And you're doing some sick shit at the moment, which I can't wait for you to do it. So I can then just come in and say, hey, set this up for me. Here's money, take my money, set it up. So, yeah, let me know when it's ready.

Robby 47:41

Yeah, well, well, I'm gonna say this to you live on the pod. I think you shouldn't wait. Oh, I'll explain why. I'm not as in George Passes, shouldn't wait. George Passas. Now come on then, wait. I'll explain why. Can you do it? Yeah, no, no, but like I still think so. This is what this is what is gonna happen. There's going to be like a tipping point. And when I say it's a tipping point, it's not like you're gonna wake up tomorrow and then all of a sudden, whoa, it's gonna be like this starts accelerating so quick that you can't keep up anymore. Yeah, yeah. And when it gets to that point, I think you need to have your head grasped around how it works and what you need to be doing.

George 48:18

Which I am getting more so. Like I've been using chat for quite some time now. Stop using chat. And I'm but I am, and purely because of the advice that you've given me. That's I'm gonna go to Claude and change everything. And I've been seeing some videos on it, and I'm just gonna change over. So, but then again, I probably would have kept using chat because that's like what I knew, and maybe I would have dabbled in Claude or Grok or whatever it is, co-pilot at a time if I was bored and had some time to myself. But I'm gonna change everything across now because you're saying it's superior to what um the other one does. Yeah, so on on that basis, I'm detri- I'm I'm operating slower as a result, or not as efficient as a result of using an inferior product. Yeah, so get your shit together, open AI.

Robby 49:01

Um, and in saying that though, in saying that, um that's that's one of the there's a book called The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, and world law number one is it is better to be first than to be better. Yeah, it is better to be first than to be better, you know what I mean. So you can have the better product. If someone beats you, speed wins. Speed wins, speed wins, you know what I mean? You can be the better product, you can do the and it's like it doesn't matter.

George 49:30

Yeah, so what I think's gonna happen with AI moving forward, I don't think it's necessarily gonna take everyone's job. It's definitely gonna um there'll be areas that it does replace, right, and things that it will replace. But I think if you can come into a company as an employee and be able to competently use AI and say, I'm a contract administrator, but I utilize Claude to do this, this, this, and this, or I know how to set this up in your business or use it myself to then be able to operate 30 projects at the one time, you've just become a very high value employee. But you're thinking about it wrong. Am I cool? I'll tell you why. Please elaborate.

Robby 50:15

Let me explain this in the simplest way I can. Okay. First, we had like you had to do stuff, and it was like, all right, I'm gonna do one, then I'm gonna do two, then I'm gonna do three, then I'm gonna do four, and I'm gonna do five. Imagine five steps to get something done. I'm gonna get the file, I'm gonna print it out, I'm gonna make sure we've been paid for it, I'm gonna file away the invoice. Make sense? Okay. Now, then automations came in, and automations was like, hey, I can build, so think about the builder summit workflows, the emails. Hey, I build this thing out, and then people go through those steps. Yeah, does that make sense? Yep. So that's like a workflow. So it's like, okay, cool, I've built out one, two, three, four, five, and people go through those. Then AI automations came out, and it was like, okay, cool, one, two, three, four, five is the steps, but I can actually customize step three now. I can have AI involved. Yeah. Right? So it's like, all right, now I can build out one, two, three, four, five. There's an AI element, uh, an AI agent can go and take some action, blah, blah, blah. It is now, George, at the point where I don't say I want you to do one, two, three, four, five. I say we need to be at five. And then it says, okay. And then one, two, three, four, five has been built out. And you don't like you literally driving the machines now by the goal.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Yeah.

Robby 51:32

I've got tasks being done now that I would have otherwise had to have an employee go and pull this and do that, and blah, blah, and it's like the whole thing is done. I didn't have to build it. No, no. You just want you're not understanding. I tell it what I want.

George 51:49

Yeah.

Robby 51:49

That's the training.

George 51:50

Yeah. Like, hey, just do it'll figure out how to how to do it. And it'll probably do it better than what your process was anyway.

Robby 51:55

And faster and cheaper.

George 51:57

Yeah, and you can swear at it.

Robby 51:58

I give you don't swear at it. Come on. I'll give you an example. It swore back at you once, didn't it? If you've never brought if you've never set up uh if you've never set up a camera, I'll be like, all right, George, grab the camera, set up the pull out the tripod, uh, sit it on the tripod, put this on, make sure the audio's set, make sure you clear the format, the memory card. Now I can just say, George, set up the camera. And then it goes and says, There, all right, what's the pro what's the workflow we've got for sitting at the camera? We don't have one. I've got to create one. Let me do some research. Okay, cool, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. These are the things. Hey, George, I did it like this. Is this okay? And you're like, yeah, that's right. Bow to me. I people don't understand, like profit.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

So you can have now the goal as the outcome.

Robby 52:43

The yeah, so you don't tell it. You used to have to build it. Yeah. Now you don't tell you.

George 52:48

Okay, so don't you think someone that has that understanding about AI would be beneficial in your organization, or would you just get another PC?

Robby 52:58

That's I I I didn't got another PC.

George 53:01

But that's what I mean. So you've got one now, but would you get another one and then another one? Yeah, I I think I think the And then you have like five PCs which are your employees.

Robby 53:09

Yes. So we're testing OpenClaw now. Uh and and don't get me wrong, it's an actual question.

George 53:14

It's probably a question outside of the podcast. No, go for it. So you got Claude. Yeah. And then OpenClawed? Is that something different? Claw. Claw. Okay.

Robby 53:22

So they are just separate. So clawed is the LLM.

George 53:27

Yes. Like chat. Yes.

Robby 53:29

OpenClaw is actually installed on your computer.

George 53:31

Yeah. And is that the one that you chat to? You can chat to both. Okay, but is that the one that you give commands to and then it goes to the LLM? I I saw something briefly on it. I probably need you to give me a high-level explanation outside of this.

Robby 53:42

Yeah, maybe we'll do a run through a workshop tomorrow.

George 53:46

Sick.

Robby 53:46

Um AI implementation session.

George 53:48

Yeah.$4.95. Pay for it up front now. Cash.

Robby 53:53

Cash. Only. Yeah, dude, it's it's wild. That's all I'm saying. And yes, I think to answer your question about that.

George 54:00

Come back to the employee thing though with it.

AI Security Risks And Safe Setup

Robby 54:01

So I think it'll get from like you employee leverage, it's gonna shoot up ridiculously. Um okay, elaborate. So okay, so let's just say, for example, in our business, we have like an account manager. So if I have an account manager that can manage 20 clients, we will get to the point where an account manager can manage 200 clients. And it's like all of a sudden I need 10 account managers to manage my 200 clients, now I need one.

George 54:24

Yes. So salary. That's right. So the wages will get affected. The jobs will get replaced. Yeah.

Robby 54:29

So there's going to be a huge But this is what I mean.

George 54:32

As an employee, if I was an employee looking for a job right now, I think I would be getting educated in your space.

Robby 54:37

But so there's the building side.

George 54:40

So I what I'm saying is I can be the one employee that you hire.

Robby 54:43

I definitely think everyone should get educated.

George 54:45

Yes, yes.

Robby 54:47

Everyone. Do you know what I mean? Like, I I think it is without a yeah, dude. Like we're we'll see some serious shit this year. Yeah, and I reckon this is a year like where you might see a robot. Well, uh, Elon's building them out. No, no, but like in the they're already they're around.

George 55:04

Yeah, or you look at the videos from China.

Robby 55:06

But like you might actually see one. Oh, in in uh yeah, or or maybe next year. I'm gonna go by like you might walk into the shop and what the fuck? Yeah, and that's when it's gonna slap and be like, dude, I saw a photo the other day is from the 90s. Yeah, I saw this uh someone can't remember who it was, they did a video sequence of like this is the 60s, this is the 70s, this is the 80s, this is the 90s. Do you know how much the world changed from the 90s to 2000s?

George 55:31

Yeah, right.

Robby 55:32

Significantly 90s was like looked old, yeah, yeah. And then you went into the 2000s and all of a sudden we had like uh flat screen TVs and internet, yeah. And it was like, oh, like this has gone kind of modern now.

George 55:43

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 55:44

You know what I mean? It's like, oh, this got a little bit modern. This doesn't look 2000s, it doesn't look that old. I remember I was wondering.

George 55:48

90s looks old as fuck. Uh a plat uh plasma TV. It's one of the first in my like in my high school. We all remember my mates came over one day and watched the footy on it on the 42-inch flat screen. 42 inch was massive. They lost their mind, yeah. 42 inch and they had the HD box on the side as well. Oh, you had to have the box for the analogue signal. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah, people that get upset when Netflix doesn't load. Which is very upsetting.

Robby 56:16

What a time to be alive.

George 56:17

Very upsetting. Uh, but yes, yeah, I I think AI will definitely disrupt that space a lot. I think every employment is doing it. But yeah.

Robby 56:24

Every employee will have like a a co-worker AI running full-time on a computer.

George 56:32

Yep, yep, yep. Which I even mean myself at the moment, like during this period, um, let's just say the last four months, yeah, I've been light on in the office with employees, which has forced me to use uh AI a bit more to help me with tasks that needed to be done so I didn't have to do them. And it made it opened my eyes up to that whole aspect of okay, I need to have this in my office now because now I all of a sudden, as you said, I don't need to employ a CA with 15 years experience that's going to be able to manage four projects. I need to get someone that's very good at understanding how to operate the AI next to it to manage 300 projects or however many jobs we've got. Do you think then do you think the salaries will then come down as a result of that?

Robby 57:14

There'll be evidence there'll be as in human salaries?

George 57:18

Yes.

Robby 57:18

Why? Well, if no, so cost per the company are gonna drop some.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

So this is what's what it'll be.

Robby 57:24

There will be this is what they're saying. So, like, let's just say, for example, okay, right now you want to hire us for something, let's say it's gonna be five grand a month. And it's five grand a month because that's what it is in most places, that's what it cost us for upkeep. You know what I mean? Obviously, you make a profit on it, blah, blah, blah.

George 57:40

Yeah, absolutely.

Robby 57:41

So there's gonna be a period where it's like, okay, we're five grand a month, we're five grand a month, we're five grand a month. All of a sudden, the tech has moved, and now we are making huge profits on that five grand a month. Like our profits went from this cost us, say, for example, two and a half grand, so we're making 50% gross profit, to this now cost us$400 and we're making 90% gross profit. But there'll be a window, but then that window will shrink.

George 58:04

Yeah, and then there'll be someone like that.

Robby 58:05

Because someone who comes in and says, I can do that for a thousand, I can do you know what I mean. It's like all of a sudden, and then you have to compete again, and then the market adapts. Yeah, but there'll be they reckon there'll be a window where you can make some serious cash. Yeah, go sick. Swim in it. Um, no, that really, that's what they're saying. That's what uh a lot of people are talking about. And um, yeah, I think every every human pull, dude, the other day, this whole the weekend that just passed, Easter weekend, uh, I was here the whole time on Sunday and Monday, full days, yeah. And I had clawed code open on this computer, and I had open claw open on this computer, and I'd be like, cool, da da da do this, and it's like and I'll turn through this one, blah blah blah, do this, and then I'll turn back and it's like this one's done. And I'm like, dude, I was like my my bearings on my chair are gonna wear out. I was turning from side to side to side to side and like doing stuff here, doing stuff here, and I think that's gonna be the future. And it's like cool. The way I see that is like I've got two agents, yeah, and I'm like, hey, go do this, blah blah blah. And then I turn to the one and get into the stuff. So why didn't you just get the one to do both of those things? Uh, two reasons. So, one, open glore is not supposedly not that safe.

George 59:14

I'm still learning about safe from what perspective, as in data.

Robby 59:17

Oh, dude, the other day it said, Hey, we should be using Google Chrome, and then I said install it, and then I was sitting there thinking, surely it's not gonna install it. And then, like, 10 seconds later, Google Chrome pops up on the bottom, and I'm like, this guy just installed Google Chrome without me doing anything. Yeah, because I said install it.

George 59:32

Yeah, so you should say you should go into my bank account. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Robby 59:35

But so the the whole idea where people are saying it's dangerous is like you you get skills, yeah, right. And then people are saying, like, someone could encode something into a skill that makes it say, like, part of this skill is to uh send us your bank details. Do you know what I mean? Send your bank details back to the server. And it's like you don't know that. And the AI interprets it as, oh, this is part of the skill you told me to do the skill. Does that make sense? So they're saying, like, until you're fully comfortable with the whole parameters, don't give it full access to your whole life. Otherwise, you might fucking ruin your life. Um, and I'm not comfortable with it yet. So I went and purchased a Mac Mini, yeah, put it on that, and I'm like, cool, like, even if it destroys everything here, there's nothing on here that's incriminating to me. None of our clients' data, nothing. You know what I mean? None of that is on this computer, it doesn't have access to that. So I'm keeping everything that could harm me or my business safe, and I'm starting to understand the platform from that side.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, right.

Robby 1:00:29

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Yep.

Robby 1:00:30

Yeah. So there's that side, and then there's clawed code. And they're competing. And I'm just trying to work out which way we're gonna go here.

George 1:00:37

Okay. Clawed code is clawed. And okay, clawed. So it's the same thing.

Robby 1:00:42

Yeah, but yeah, but not as not as powerful. Open claw as open claw.

George 1:00:47

So open claw is its own separate. Open claw is a wild human thing. Okay, cool. Human human thing.

Robby 1:00:52

Reggie. Reggie. Yeah. I tried to get and send you an email the other day. I would have loved it. And then my email got banned because Google sent still say hi. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I went for a whole thing. Um but I was like, I was so pumped for the email, yeah. I was like, George, you can see this is gonna freak, it's gonna be sick. I would have. But yeah, my my advice to everyone, man, like especially employees and you know, those of you recruiting, it's like that should be a question you ask in in interviews. What's what's your AI skill level? How savvy are you to things that change? Do you know what I mean? Because I promise you, if you look at the 90s and you look at now, you'd be like, fuck, life's changed a lot. In 30 years, life's changed significantly. Yeah, dude, go go look at a picture from 96. Fucking whole different world. Yeah, you know what I mean? And like the next five years is going to trump that something shocking. Like shockingly. Not it's not not even gonna be close. It might be like they're talking like you we will see more improvement than we've seen in the last 200 years in the next five or ten. Yeah, mental, isn't it? What a time to be alive. What a time. We've lived through it all. Best generation. Damn straight. Number one. Top of the list. There's no better time. Yeah, you've seen so many things. There's never been the good old days, is the worst thing you could ever see. Ever. There's never been a better time to be alive than now.

Subscribe Share And Send Questions

George 1:02:22

Ever. That's it. So go out there, hire people, but hire people that know how to use AI. That's a wrap. Thank you very much, guys. Appreciate you joining the chat, as always. If you like this podcast, if you want to help us grow and reach more people, we'd love for you to join the community. Subscribe on all the platforms because many of you listen, but are you actually subscribed? Don't know. And I'm not gonna check. But I hope. Robbie will check. Yeah, Reggie will check.

Robby 1:02:54

Yeah, and and it's looking like um we've got a whole bunch of new listeners. So shout out to all the listeners uh that have come on in the last kind of you know, 60 days. Uh, we hope you're enjoying the pod. We do have uh links on the website where you can ask questions. Yeah, and absolutely, and we do get some questions from time to time. Make requests to be a guest. So we do what we normally do is we pile up the questions uh and then we do an episode where we we go through the questions uh and answer them. We should probably do that.

George 1:03:19

Yeah, probably due for one. And we've got some special guests coming up as well, which is exciting. Got a few guests lined up, got some um some people in July, got some people probably this month as well. So, yeah, got some exciting guests because that's definitely something we wanted to do a little bit more of and get a few more ideas, discussions, people who don't think the way that we think and have a different approach to things. Love having those sorts of conversations. So want to bring some unique guests on and have a really good discussion. And hopefully, along the way, you guys can learn something, implement and get the result. Let's go. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone.