You Cannot Scale Without Letting Go

Time is the one KPI nobody can dodge, and George’s 42nd birthday turns into a real conversation about aging, death, motivation, and the uneasy feeling that you should be “further ahead.” We unpack a simple but powerful reframe from The Gap and the Gain: progress gets easier to sustain when you stop obsessing over what’s missing and start tracking what you’ve already built. That mindset shift matters because it changes how you lead, how you hire, and how you show up when things get hard.

From there, we get deeply practical on leadership and small business growth. We break down why quarterly one-on-one meetings are one of the most underrated tools in people management, how scheduled check-ins improve employee performance, and why “I don’t have time” usually means you’re about to pay for it later. We talk delegation, letting go without lowering standards, and the rule we both live by: mistakes are fine once, repeating the same mistake is a choice. If you want a business that can run without you, you need systems, process, and a team that actually feels ownership.

We also go into hiring strategy, including why you should hire before it hurts, how to think about wages without panicking, and why great employees are not overhead but assets that can multiply results. We cover AI in business as a real-world tool for compressing admin work and even for reading contracts, plus why contractors should be treated like an extension of your brand. If you got value from this, subscribe, share it with a founder friend, and leave a review so more builders and business owners can find it.

Transcript

Birthday Perspective On Time

Robby 0:00

Welcome to a new week and to a new financial. Can you fucking believe it's July?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Oh man. It's isn't that not wild? Hang on a second. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. Because there's something you're missing. I'm missing. Yeah. And it's massive. Nah. It is. It's huge. It's huge.

George 0:24

What is it? You haven't even said it. And I'm surprised. I'm actually upset. I don't know if I can continue the rest of this podcast. I know, exactly what it is. What is it? That's it. 42 today, mate. Happy birthday. Thank you very much. 6th of July, ladies and gentlemen, please put it in your calendar and spam my inbox just to make me feel special and loved and enough.

Robby 0:52

How does it feel to be old? Older.

George 0:55

Older. I feel good. I feel pumped. I feel strong. And I look, I feel the same as I did yesterday. Feel the same as I did yesterday. So it's uh another year, another another three, six, five days around the sun. Here we are. Yeah. I like birthdays, man. I want as many birthdays as I can get.

Robby 1:15

As in when you say you like birthdays, as in celebration.

George 1:19

I don't see many people old as a privilege. Yeah, that's right. Many people look at it and go, oh man, I'm 42. Oh no, I've got another year.

Robby 1:26

For those people, nah, for those people, it's just a reminder that, oh, like I haven't done what I want to do. Yeah. Yeah. And I know a lot of people like that.

George 1:34

Yeah. I know a lot of people, predominantly older than me. But uh a lot of people look at it in that way and just go, oh man, I'm old. Like that's this is it. I'm over, it's done. Well, do you ever do you ever think about death? Yeah. More so now. More so now that I'm old that can free because I'm should be halfway there. No, I I think about it, I think about it on the perspective of almost as a motivator, you know. Like we're gonna we're gonna die. So you gotta get up and get going, and and there's there's plenty of things to be grateful and happy for, and um time is fleeting. It's just a reminder now that I'm older and I see that my kids are getting older, all that sort of stuff. You know, in my mind, there's a there's an element of me that's still 25 years old, you know, and just want to go out with the boys and and have fun and not have and be carefree. And but then there's also the other side of it, it's like, wow, we've still got so much to do.

Robby 2:30

Yeah, but do you ever like um do you think I feel like I think about it more now than ever, but I also feel like man, like if I'm this age and I'm thinking about it. Yeah, what I'm gonna what am I gonna do? What am I gonna be like when I'm yeah, what am I gonna be like when I'm 60 or 70? Yeah, like how does an 80-year-old feel? It could be any day now, like do you know what I mean?

George 2:52

Yeah, and and and it would no one would be shocked. No, you'd be like, oh good wicket. Yeah, you know, you'd be pretty happy with that. That's what I'm saying.

Robby 2:58

Yeah, and then it's like, what's the mindset at 80? Like, you cannot help. I sorry, I feel like I would not be able to help but think about it. Yeah, it could be any day now. Yeah, yeah. Just like this is just the way it's gone for everyone. Like, this is I've seen millions, billions of people die. Not uh not directly, but like we know of it's not this is not uh a new thing, you know what I mean? It's like I've seen this happen to so many different people. It's like you know, I'm gonna go down a similar path. I'm the same species, and that time, if you're 80, it can't be that far.

George 3:43

Look, I I think the way I try to see it as well is even at 80, you still have you still could be another lifetime. Yeah, dude, you could still live in easily, yeah, exactly right, especially with modern technology and it's only getting better. Yeah. There's and also I'm putting things into motion today that's going to ensure I'm as healthy and fit and strong as possible in the next 40 years. So I very strongly feel as much as that is there, it's a very it's the reality. The other reality also is that you could still live a very long time. And that's what I'd be pushing. That's what I I think that's where my mind would be. And as much as I say, yeah, I think about death, or it might be there, it's not at the forefront of my thoughts on the on the daily. It's more, it's more just like, oh, okay, yeah, another year, all right, let's go. We still got time. And we've said it before, it's like you you sometimes do feel like you thought you would be more ahead than what you are, but again, things can change real quick, real quick, in so many aspects, both from a positive and a negative point of view. You know, I'm I'm gonna go on holiday soon. What if the plane goes down? It's not gonna matter how old I am or what I have done or haven't done. These things are uh they're very real possibilities, and that's why uh I don't I don't focus on it as a negative, it's just the reality, it's gonna happen.

Robby 5:08

Yeah, I was um I was talking to someone about that the other day, as the the thing about you know, not being as far along as you'd like. And they recommended a book to me and the book title, I haven't read it yet. I've been recommended this book before though. So I actually got recommended this book by if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure I bought this book because of Ryan Tuckwood. Yeah, right. Yeah, when we're in Vegas. He's like, hey, read this book. And I was like, and it's called the game. Shout out to Ryan. We haven't shout out to Ryan. I haven't heard that name for a while. Uh The Gap in the Game.

unknown 5:43

Yeah.

Robby 5:44

And he's like, listen, he's like, you know, so he goes, so often we we fucking focus on the gap. He goes, and we we forget to look back at like the game and like how fucking far you've come. I'm gonna write that. I'm gonna get that. Yeah, and I was like The Gap and the Gain. The book's called The Gap in the Gain. I I'm 95% sure Ryan told me about it. Yeah because I've got the book. Yeah. And um, yeah, I just thought, what an interesting, like someone wrote what an interest the the topic is so common that someone wrote a fucking book about it. Do you know what I mean? Like someone wrote a book about people not being as I guess not being as far along as they'd like, and a different perspective to have on it.

George 6:20

Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, there's definitely perspective on it. Life is all perspective.

Robby 6:23

It is because like you can two people can be in the same situation.

George 6:26

One can be sad, one can be happy. Yeah, and as much as you I often look at it, I think it's the on like that entrepreneurial driven part of us that think that way, because we're putting in that the effort, you're doing the reps, you're doing all these extraordinary things, and it's like, well, we should be further ahead. But like we're just comparing ourselves to someone else that's maybe had the lucky break or whatever it might be. But if you look at where you are and what you've done and what you've achieved to date, there are so many phenomenal things that you've done and that you've achieved, and just you sitting here by consequence. Like there's there's a lot to look at and that's and to be proud of and to be happy about. Uh, and I think it's a good reframe sometimes to go back and and just check on those.

Robby 7:08

Yeah, sometimes you need to be reminded.

George 7:13

Yeah, absolutely you do. And it's good to have those positive people around you to remind you of those things. Uh, my yeah, as I said, I've got people close to me, family members, that think that way. That, you know, they're they're later in their in their years, and they just say that. Like even my dad says that sometimes, you know, just passing. He's quite a positive person. But in passing, be like, oh, you know, I because I could kick the bucket in the next in the next year, who knows? And I'm like, yeah, but you can also live another 30 years, another 40 years. Like you could live another lifetime. My whole life that I've been alive, that 42 years, you could live another 42. So it's true. It's yeah, it is, it is, it is, it is. So there's um, I would always I would I think I would always try to reframe back to that space and go, well, yeah, we've got time. Just keep going. Look on the positive side.

Robby 8:02

So you need to um just continue moving forward. Yeah, absolutely.

Quarterly One On Ones With Staff

Robby 8:09

You know, and um we're moving forward, we're moving forward uh in our business. Um, it's got a few big moves. I reckon uh I'm gonna look at rolling out given the last episode that we discussed. Yep. Um and one thing I always do as well, George in the business. Uh I think you do something similar, but please uh share with the with the audience. But one thing I do with everyone in my team, uh so we've got our uh we employ 10 people total. Uh and that's not including any contractors, contractors are on top of that. So we employ 10 people total, a mix of remote and in-house. And uh we do one-on-one catch-up calls once every 90 days. So once a quarter. Once a quarter, yeah. So what I like to do is now this is a new quarter, so we finished all the catch-up calls, but like what I like to do is at the end of every quarter to sit down with every single team member for about 45 to 60 minutes, nothing more. And we sit down and we have a chat. And just like uh, hey, how are you going? What's happening? You know, how's things on your end? How are you going with the role? Uh and I've had a line of questioning that I kind of walked through with them. Uh, and I I I find it I find it unbelievably refreshing. You know, just to connect or for them. I think they enjoy it. Or they dread it. Nah, I think they enjoy it. Um but I find it unbelievably refreshing for myself because it kind of really gives forces. Gives you like a really close some well, sometimes it's you you you learn something that you didn't know. Sometimes it's the oh you're not you're not locked in here. Like you're saying the same thing you said last quarter and you're just trying to get through this call. And sometimes it's like the oh, you you you are locked in here. Like you are talking about well, how do I grow in this business? You don't, you know what I mean? And I think it gives you really good insight because no matter the business you're in, uh at some point until we get robots, at some point you're gonna need team. Like, and and for some people that's straightaway, you know, if you if you're in hospitality space, you need people instantly. If you run an e-commerce store, you might not need people for a long time. And then you've got to hire people, right? You might be able to get much further before you need to engage people. But at some point, no matter the type of business you operate, you're gonna have to employ people. Um, and I think people underestimate the importance of building a team. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, yeah. I think people really, really underestimate one, the difficulty behind it.

George 11:02

Yeah, and I I feel that it's it's when people are sort of doing their task, it's like set and forget for most business owners. It's like, no, I just look, I mean, I'm so busy. I can't sit down an hour, 45 minutes, I've got to do a review with this person. It's gonna take my whole day if I do the whole team, you know, and it's like it does, it does. Yeah, I believe it. It's it does take effort, and I think a lot of people put that on the back burner because they don't see it as a metric that's gonna drive their business in that moment, even though it's a huge metric that will drive their business in the future.

Robby 11:38

Dude, it is 100% a metric. If you measured it, I guarantee you you would see a positive uptake. If you measured the people who do it versus the people who don't, I guarantee you you'd see some level of positive improvement.

George 11:53

Yeah, I try to do it quarterly. I probably don't do it quarterly, I'd probably do it more three times. I tend to do a start of year, mid-year, towards the end of the year. So I'll do it every whatever it might be, say every four to five months, something like that. Probably every four months. Uh with my senior management, I'll catch up almost on a monthly basis. We'll catch up uh and sit down and actually talk about business strategy type things. Uh, but I also do just catch-ups in the moment, unscheduled. So, hey, let's go for a coffee. And then I'll talk to them about things like there. So I'll have it a little bit more casual. So I have it two ways. I do uh an informal type chat where we'll just catch up, go for a coffee. Hey, what's going on? What's news? How are you traveling? Life, business, all that sort of jazz. But then I'll have another one where we do a proper review and do like almost a KPI review on their performance, on how they're tracking, on where they can grow, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are. And I've found like what you just said, every time I've done that with each and every one of my employees, there's always been a spring in their step following that meeting. 100%. Every single time. Every single time. So you look at that and go, well, if they feel that way, then this is definitely something that's positive for them and something that you should be doing. And I'm a massive believer in it because I've seen it. I used to like it. And as a driven individual, when I was an employee, I used to love it when my boss would take notice and go, Oh, I see how well you're doing here. I like this, I like this. I reckon you can improve here. Is there any training that you want to do? Oh, you know, I'd love to learn how to do estimating. Oh, I wouldn't mind getting on site a little bit more and doing this. And you just say, okay, great, we'll give you that opportunity. And you leave that meeting just going, fuck yeah, let's go. So motivated, so driven. And you you didn't even get a pay rise or anything. It was more just okay, I'm being seen. There's an opportunity for here for me to grow and to achieve more and do more, and yeah, eventually earn more too.

Robby 13:43

I think um a big part of that is you know, when you don't here's the downside to not scheduling it. Cause like I'm pretty sure you're busy. Do you know what I mean? I'm fucking busy as hell. And I feel like it's one of those things where if you don't book it in, it'll always get pushed out. Oh, yeah. 100%. It'll always just like, hey man, like next month, next month, next month, and the next thing. And I've been in that trap before as well. Yeah, yeah. And the next thing you know, a year's passed by and you haven't done it, and you're like, fuck, like time is just flying by, right? Yeah. Whereas when it's like locked in the calendar, it's a recurring event. Yep. It happens once every 90 days at the end of the quarter. Uh, we sit down and we talk about what was and and sometimes it's just a chat. Sometimes you're just like, how's life? Yeah. And sometimes it's like, hey, you know, these numbers don't really stack up.

George 14:42

Yeah, we we also do quarterly team meetings as well. So I try to do it at least once a quarter in the office. Uh, everyone comes here, they finish work half an hour earlier, whatever it might be, come to the office and we'll have a meeting. And that's where we discuss sort of global movements with the business, but also I'm I I even incorporate an element of training into that too, to help them out in a task that they're doing or language that I want them to be using. And I find that that's really good too. Bit of team bonding, but also an opportunity for me to teach them something as well.

Robby 15:12

I think um, yeah, I think it's the most underrated thing you can do. You know, I think the most underrated thing you can do is invest in your people. And I feel like I feel like it took me too long to learn. You know what I mean? And I feel like there would be people listening to this right now that are like, I don't fucking have time for that nonsense. And you're like, what the fuck are these guys talking about? And so no, no, like I cannot I I can't harp on enough about how much of an impact this will make on your business. I think Stephen Butler said it and he goes, A company is a group of people. That's what it is. So if you want to have a really good company, you have uh you need to have a really good group of people that do things inside of that company. You know what I mean? And I think you start to learn like, oh, like when I get someone to do this, I don't have to do there is no greater feeling than seeing things change. This is for me. There's no greater feeling than seeing things change in your business and for the better. And uh you had no involvement, and you're like, what's that? And they're like, oh yeah, we do this like this now because when we did it like that, that wasn't working, so we added this step in the process, and now you know that doesn't happen anymore. You're like cool. I don't even know where the fuck that saved. Um but yeah, I think that stuff's really cool. And um yeah, it it's been really insightful, man. It's been it's been one of my uh it's kind of fed me some energy a little bit. And uh one

Recognition That Creates Better Performance

Robby 16:50

of the biggest bits of feedback, oh I always ask this question, right? Because I I'm not so silly to think that I can't learn from them. You know what I mean? And I think that's something that most fuck I know more than you, and it's like no no, they see more than you, you know, the AI knows more than you. The only reason you can tend to put out a better thing than AI can is because you have more context. They have more context than you, it's got nothing to do with intelligence, yeah. They see the data that you spend little to no time on site, they see all the stuff on site. That's right. So it's like sitting down with them and talking about what's actually getting in their way on site and and starting to extract that information from them is the leverage point for you. Uh but the thing I always ask my team is like, hey, you know, I don't think everyone I employ has worked somewhere else previously. They've all had jobs. I'm like, what's something you did in an old workplace that we could do here? Like, what's something from your old workplace?

George 17:50

Yeah, that's good. That's better.

Robby 17:51

Yeah, yeah. What's something that yeah, yeah, of course, that's better. Don't bring the bad stuff. Um, what's something you did in a previous workplace that we could uh we could really start to implement here that would help us make this a better place for you? Yeah.

George 18:06

That's yeah, and that's a great question. And I remember back in the day when I was actually going for a job interview at a business, and I think I know what got me the job. It was my we were sitting there and we're talking, and I was with the director. And anyway, one of the questions came up, or you know, what do you do? What blah, blah, blah. But I I kind of ended the meeting with or the interview with me saying, Look, at the end of the day, I go, I've had a a pretty a pretty good array of experience working for these tier one builders. And me coming into your organization, because it was a smaller business, it was they were turning over, I think, 20 odd mil at the time. Uh, and that's going from multiplex and abbey group. I said, the one thing that's like who? Multiplex. Oh, wouldn't it surprise me if they were in the billions? Yeah. Like when I say billions, maybe a billion at least. At some stage they would have, I've got no doubt. I don't know how busy they are right now, but yeah, they would have they would have been at billion-dollar company turnover at some stage. Um so what was I saying? Oh, and I was saying my ability to come in here now, if I was to get the role, I think I would improve your business because I've got a a wealth of experience working for these companies, and I can now bring and implement and assist with processor systems, procedures in your business that we've utilized there that will help you on your journey of becoming a builder or you know, delivering projects. And I think just that sentence, me insinuating that, me saying that, and I could, mind you, I could back that up, got me that job. I would love to see employees do the same thing with me. If I was to go out now, and we will in the near future, I'll go out and I'll employ another administrator, for example, in the office. One of the things will be I might even ask the question and try and prompt them and say, Well, look, if you're doing some stuff there that's different, that's better, that's good, like let's have that discussion. Like, what can you bring into our operations to make us better than what we were? And I think that's a really powerful thing for employees to be looking at doing because bosses see that. You know, a good boss, if you're working at a good company, like people that do the reviews, they catch up with their team, they see it. I promise you, if you're listening to this and you're an employee, or if you're a boss, you know which employees put in the extra effort, you know which ones want to help, want to make you grow, want to do all that, and you're gonna reward those guys. You're going to reward them each and every time. I've I've employed um some new employees in the business over the last three months, and already I can look at things that they're doing and go, okay, well done. Well done. I didn't have to ask you to do that, and you did it. Which which is, I reckon, one of the biggest tells. It was so it is such a big tell. Oh, there was this little thing that we had to do. There's a bathroom um refurb that we've had to do. And my carpenter who's working for me, he'd organize the plumber without me speaking to him. He's like, no, no, I've already done that. He goes, he's gonna come in this week, he's fixed that, and then next week I'll get in there and I'll do this. I didn't have to make the call. So good. That's amazing that's amazing, that's a massive thing for me. The uh yesterday or the day before, I was on site and I was walking around at one of our biggest jobs with the client, with the architect, and with my supervisor. And as we're there, we're talking. My supervisor had the answer for every question, which I would expect, but I was also pumped that he had those answers. And it's like, cool, yep, the plaster is coming in on Thursday, he's doing that. After he's done about the carpenter, he's coming to do skirts. Then I've got the painter, he's coming in on this day. Stone's going in on Monday, and outside we're getting this, we're doing the you know, the Telstra, and then we're pouring driveways, and then we're completely clean outside, and then next so he had the answer for absolutely everything. And that was great because it made the perception was that we had control of the. Project, which is great. But also, I was impressed that he had everything under control. Because if I came in there and I was like, okay, cool, when's the joinery getting finished? And he's like, uh, I'll call the joiner, you should know all of those answers. Your role is on site.

Robby 22:16

Or at least have it documented.

George 22:18

Yeah, you should have everything ready to go. Or you say, Yeah, I'm just waiting for a phone call. It should be coming. I this is when I need it done, and that's what I'm pushing for. So for me, because if I had to then go on site and start coordinating trades, that that pisses me off. That pisses me right off. If I have to go on site and make phone calls as the director of the company, make phone calls to find out where, or to get the carpenter there, to get the electrician there, to get the plumber there. That annoys me a lot because that's not my role. My role is to be pushing and growing and making the business better, not doing your job. And if I have to do your job, then you're not going to be employed here. Someone else will be.

Robby 22:57

Yeah.

George 22:57

There's this so there's two sides

Letting Go Without Losing Standards

George 22:59

to that.

Robby 22:59

Because I think one side is like, hey man, um do the fucking job. And then the other side, like the person, the employee, you're like, do the like that person needs to do their role. They don't have to carry it out at a satisfactory level so that you don't have to get involved, step in, etc. Yeah. There's another side to it though. You have to let go. Yeah, yeah, you can't finish eight, which is way harder than anyone I've ever heard. Like, I heard people say, you need to let go, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, no, like it is fucking hard to let go. Especially when you've built the thing from scratch. And then it's like, but you but you gotta understand if you want to build a big business, you can't be doing everything in the business. Yeah, you can't be doing all the little tasks, you can't be, you know, doing the customer service and handling this element and doing all the basic stuff and sending all the emails and making sure you got you got to provide the right environment in which people can thrive and be able to do what they do. Yeah. You know what I mean? I was speaking with um, I was speaking with uh one of our guys the other day, and he's like, but I can do and I was like, you need to get them to do that. He's like, but I can do that better. I'm like, I don't care. That's not what we hired you for. You know what I mean? You cost us way more. Like, you get them to do the fucking thing. Teach them how to do it. Yeah, you get them to do it. No, no, they know how to do it.

George 24:27

Okay, well if they if we can do it better, then say give them give them the tools to go, hey, I see how you're doing it. Do it like this because it's actually better. Yeah, or do it like this because this is how Robbie likes the report. Or use this software or use this AI because you'll do it in five minutes as opposed to five hours.

Robby 24:43

Yeah. And it's like this person was having the struggle of like, oh, but if I've got to do that, I might as well just do it. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's the wrong that's the wrong attitude. How to look at it. Like, yeah, you know what I mean? You you're gonna but they're gonna take longer total hours, yeah. But that doesn't matter. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you're gonna go from your hundred dollars. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna go from spending uh eight hours on this to spending one hour on this. That's what matters, and we still deliver the same or a similar outcome. Do you know what I mean? Um, and there's a there's a really good book by Dan Martell. Do you know who Dan Martell is? Maybe. It's called Buy Back Your Time.

George 25:22

Oh yes, I know.

Robby 25:23

Yeah, it's a fucking great book. I've actually got it in my study. Read it.

George 25:29

Thanks.

Robby 25:29

Oh well do you call your office your study? Oh, you're doing at home. No, no, I'm just just a word I used. Um yeah, and I think um I I think as a business owner, you need to be comfortable with people not outputting something exactly how you would output it.

George 25:49

Yeah, they're gonna do it different. And that's okay.

Robby 25:52

Yeah, you need to be comfortable with that, and you need to like you know you know what else is something I've learned from doing these these calls, which lines up directly with what I'm saying.

George 26:03

Sometimes people need to make their own mistakes, and I'm happy for that to happen because they can learn from that. It's if it as long as it doesn't become a pattern and they keep making the same mistake. No, no, of course.

Robby 26:14

I tell my I've got a every single person on my team has heard me say this. Hey, I've got no issues with mistakes, I've got issues with the same mistakes. Do you know what I mean? As long as you don't make the same mistake twice, because if you make it once, okay, you didn't know. But if you make it twice, okay, you didn't care. Do you know what I mean? And they're different. So it's like, I don't care. If you didn't know and you learn from something, that's fine. As long as it doesn't fucking cost us a million dollars. But if you made a mistake, like if you came in and then you kicked the camera over and the camera broke, and then we brought a new camera. Nah, okay, cool. Like, let's just say you fucked up, yeah, whatever. And then we brought a new camera and you came in and you kicked it over again. You're like, oh, sorry. It's like, hey man, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, let's have a chat about this. Not as sorry as your bank account, baby. Um yeah, I've got and and I think and and that's hard, dude. That's hard to because like you need to disassociate yourself from your company because you can't help but feel like you're being taken. Not not you not you being taken for a ride, but it's like, okay, if it cost the company money, you feel like fuck that cost me money. And it's like you can't think like that.

George 27:32

And it was once, I can't remember what it was, but you're like, I was having this issue with a client and they didn't pay X amount of dollars for something or whatever it was. And you made me reframe that because I was like, but they cost me all this money, like that's you know, this, this, this, and this. And he's like, No, no, that cost Pascon money, didn't cost you money, it cost your company money, and that just made that reframe a lot better when I was dealing with that issue. I'm like, Yeah, you know what, Ed, you're completely right. It cost my company money, it didn't cost me money. And yes, even though the money came out of that account and whatever it was or didn't go in, uh, you then disassociate with that and then you put the processes in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Robby 28:10

Yeah, uh, one of the most powerful things for myself was positioning myself as there's Robbie the employee, and then Robbie the shareholder. And they are not the same person. You know what I mean? Yeah. They Robbie the employee has a duty to grow the business and he gets paid a salary, and he has to come in and he has to grow the business and do the right things and blah blah blah, and he's got KPIs he needs to hit. And then Robbie the shareholder is the one who benefits from owning the company. You know, and it's like that. Um I think paying yourself a salary is very important. Because then it disassociates from those things. Yeah, it helps you. Yeah. Because then all of a sudden it's not about how much money's left in the account at the end of a month. It's more about okay, cool, like I've got my salary. This is my living my personal life is kind of I've I've built it almost, yeah. It's I've like I've almost built a disconnect. It's like, okay, cool, that's all taken care of. I don't have to worry about my fucking rent. And I've just got to worry about making the company profitable. And we know how to do that. You know? Um, I think that's a really powerful, powerful reframe.

First Hires And Hiring Before It Hurts

Robby 29:21

Now, there would be a bunch of people listening to this who may not have any employees. And hopefully they're still listening. Uh what would I guess what would you say to these people, George? Because it's because I I know lots of people who like got rid of all their employee, I've spoken people, and they're like, hey, we you know, we were at 20 people, now I've got another one, and I'm happier. And it's like, okay. Like, and each to their own. You do what you want in life. I I I can't remember if I said this the other day, but this could be my most favorite saying ever. And it's the only true test of intelligence is if you get what you want out of life. That's it. Nothing else, it's not about your IQ, it's not about how fucking smart you think you are. Yeah. The truest test of intelligence is if you get what you want out of life. And if you do, you're smart. And if you don't, you're not that smart. That's just the reality, right? And I fucking love that saying. And for that person who got rid of their whole team, that's m maybe that's what they want and they worked out a way to do it, and that's great. But what would you say for someone who's maybe looking at doing their first hire or is thinking, you know, listening to this now and thinking, you know, fuck yeah, they're right. Like I I've known I need to put someone on and I'm, you know, getting run off my feet. What would you say to that person who hasn't hired anyone before? Or maybe they have and it hasn't worked out, and they're listening to this now and they they know they need to make their first hire.

George 30:56

No successful business ever grew, ever had any level of success without people. Simple as that. Simple as that. If you don't want to employ people, then go and get a job. Like, what are you doing differently than what you would be doing in a job? You're probably gonna get, and if you go and work for the right company, you'll probably make more money, less stress. You know, you're gonna get your paycheck every single week. Whereas if you're the one that's every single day doing the grind, processing invoices, speaking to the clients, doing the sales, doing the actual do, writing the ads, cutting the meat, whatever it is, if you're that person, you're just going to find yourself in Groundhog Day and just reliving the same day every single time. And you're never going to be able to get the frame. You won't be able to go on a holiday because you have to be at work and completely dependent on you. So you have to go out and get employees. You have to. If you are in a business, like don't start a business if you have no intention of getting employees, period. Now, okay, I'm sure there's some tech startups and things like that that you may not need to have employees up front or for quite some time. But eventually, if it does grow, if it does become whatever.

Robby 32:10

Yeah, like you'll eventually hit a point. You'll hit a point, right?

George 32:13

You will hit a point. If you're good at what you do, you will hit a point where you're going to need employees. That's it. You know, I love this saying, and I say it at some of my trainings. A bad employee will cost you money. A good employee will cost you nothing. And a great employee will make you five to ten times their salary. Now, I try to surround myself with great employees. If not good, then get them to great. Okay. So get them to, if they are good, we want to get them to great. And I've often been criticized, like people that don't know, they'll come to me and say, oh, you know, you have too many overheads, you've got too many employees. They're not, they're not, hang on, my employees don't cost me money. I don't get, they're not on the balance sheet as a liability. Right? They are an asset. They are making me money. The reason I can deliver so many projects, the reason why they are delivered at a high standard and without many defects or whatever it might be, is because I have a team there doing that. I don't have to sit here and do the manual work, which then allows me to go out and get more work and grow the business and then have to be in a position where I need to employ more people. So you have to get the people, and for those that are of you that have employed someone and it hasn't worked, okay, good. You've just found a way not to, or the type of person you don't want in your organization.

Robby 33:36

One of the biggest mistakes people make, and I've definitely made this mistake, is you hold on to someone for way longer than uh than you should. You know what I mean?

George 33:49

Because hiring's a fucking job. Oh man, it's funny. You I used to think I would enjoy the hiring process. No, I used to think, oh wow, we're gonna go out and hire someone is gonna be fun to get to interview people, this is gonna be fun. Oh man, after the like, stop, don't talk to me, just come in here and go to work.

Robby 34:04

Yeah, because like also, like, and and I understand as an employee, you want to show up and be present yourself in the best light. So, like, a lot of the time, the person who comes into interview is not the person who's coming for the job.

George 34:20

Yes, yes, yes. They're putting on it.

Robby 34:22

Yeah, they're like, they need to show up and and show out, right? And it's like, cool, like I understand that. And you should you should do that just to be clear. Like, don't rock up as your worst self. Like, you should rock up as your best self, you want to increase the likelihood that you get the job. But as an employer, you see that and you you you factor that in and you're like, all right, cool. Like, I'm not I'm meeting the best version, most likely. Dude, and sometimes I've done interviews where I'm like, dude, if that's your best fucking, if that's you showing up as your best self, like, fuck, good luck. Um that person can be having a bad day, I don't know. But um yeah, that that person shows up as their best self, you know, and I've done this where you know, you're like, all right, all right, like we finally get someone, and then you put them in the role, and then you see things like a week in, and or you know, sometimes it's a month in, and you think, Oh, like, you know, that's not a good that's that's definitely not a good sign. Um and you turn a blind eye.

George 35:27

Yep. Because in the moment there's a couple of reasons. I think in the moment you need them. Yeah, you you're like I need them. I can't fucking go for go that now. It's gonna kill me. I have to get rid of him now. I'm gonna lose yeah, I'm gonna lose a week. I'm gonna lose time recruiting, yeah. Maybe he'll fix it up, or maybe he'll change his attitude, or she and you're like, uh I'll give him another week. Oh, I'll go to the end of this job and then we'll do it. I'll get to this period and then we'll have the conversation.

Robby 35:53

Which which is why I think the most important thing in hiring is to hire when you before you need to.

George 36:01

Yes, massive. I can couldn't agree more with that. Hire before it hurts.

Robby 36:06

Yeah, like don't put yourself in a in a strenuous or strainful position, and then you're like, we're fucked, we're uh you know, we're we're there's backlog, we've got all this shit. We're yeah, and they're because then you're gonna throw them into the deep end and they're gonna be. If you're gonna fuck the person, you're gonna hire the wrong person, you're not clear on what you want, you're you know what I mean.

George 36:23

Yeah, if the process isn't there, the system is the time isn't there for them to learn the role. Yeah, yeah.

Robby 36:27

You're gonna throw them under the pump, they gotta go in full sprint into a into a whole bunch of shit.

George 36:34

Yeah. And if you're really unorganized, because if every okay, and this is if you're the one person doing everything, everything's in your head. Where's your process for it? Where's your system for it? Like, when you're gonna bring it in and you're like, here, go do this. Like, oh, how do you want me to do that? Oh, well, I know how to look, I'll just do that, you do this.

Robby 36:51

Yeah, and that's a that's a fantastic learning experience for when you first hire. Because then you realize, oh, like this is all in my head. Yeah. Like, yeah, you're like you just fucking do the thing, you're like, I've never done this before.

George 37:03

Yeah, it's such a bottleneck in the business. Um, yeah, but you learn, you learn that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So definitely hire before it hurts. And uh, you know, a lot of people look at it and think, I have to spend a hundred K on this person. It's like a hundred grand, where am I gonna get a hundred grand for? Well, you don't. You don't have to pay them that in the sense of it's a monthly wage or it's a weekly wage. You don't have to pay them that day one.

Robby 37:27

What do you what do you yeah, what do you base that off? Like what do you uh like I get what you're saying, like in the sense of their salary, but like people people are thinking annually, yeah.

George 37:37

Well, I'll I'll look at it from can the business afford it too, right? So I'll look at it and go, well, have we got enough money in the bank to pay this person for the next three months? Yeah, but three months, yeah. I do three months. If I can pay three months, yeah, then I can like we can do it.

Robby 37:49

We can do it exactly. Yeah, I can pay. We'll put ourselves in a position in three months to cover the salary.

George 37:53

Not only that, exactly. They should be doing, they should be paying, like remember, bad employee costs you money, good employee costs you nothing, great employee makes you money. So if they are in there and doing their role and competently taking work off your plate, that you can now go out and secure more work or go out and be able to deliver something quicker, that's a win-win. You will make the money. You you allow for their salary within the growth. It might sometimes mean, yeah, this quarter you're going to make a little bit less money.

unknown 38:23

Okay.

George 38:24

This quarter you're gonna make a little bit less. But next quarter, the idea is let's get back on the horse, let's go win the more pro, let's go secure more jobs. So look yourself recently. You hired you were, we were talking, you were talking about hiring a videographer, but full-time. Because we had we had someone in that was almost that was working contract, but almost full time, and then they left. And it's like shit, you got to find someone to come in and do it. And you're just contracting out, and it's like the quality wasn't there, the people like it wasn't as good for you as you wanted to. Yeah, and then like I remember you saying, I was like, fuck, should I put them on? I'll put them on three days a week, you know, and then just fuck it, we'll just do it. Let's go. And you put them on, and within like two, three weeks, they were fully booked for the three days that they were here, and you're like, hey, I need you on five days a week. And now you fully book them for five days a week. And now it's like, hey, who else do you have? Yeah. Okay, can we get another editor? Like, how can we make this quicker? Because you're so busy filming that you're taking two to three weeks to deliver the content, and that's not that's not quick enough. Let's go get an editor so you don't have to do that. So now you can go and film more, and then we'll go, let's go get another videographer. So your business grows as a result of you putting in yourself in that position, and the business gets used to paying for people. It gets used to it.

Robby 39:40

I also think, um, and maybe this is just me, but I feel like, and this might be a very bad trait, but I feel like I perform better when my back's against the wall.

George 39:51

Yeah, yeah, pressure makes diamonds. I I tend to agree with that too.

Robby 39:55

Uh, and it's like that comfort's a killer, you know, when your back's not against the wall, you're like, Oh, all of a sudden you're like, you've had you've you've you've profited for some months, and then you're like, um, yeah, okay, like I'm just gonna like just you don't consciously say it, yeah, yeah. But like you start to notice, like, oh, my foot's come off the pedal. Do you know what I mean? Like, I kind of backed off a bit, we're doing well. Um, and you kind of back off a bit, and then you end up falling into a hole or whatever, and whatever it might be, right? Yeah, and it's like how do you get yeah, it it I think it happens super commonly, and it's like putting you sometimes hiring that employee puts you in that position where it does put you in the red for a month, yeah, and then you're like, all right, let's fucking go. Like, let's go, you know what I mean? Um, I need to make sure that we're at this point within 90 days to ensure that this is covered. Um yeah, it's it's until we get robots we're just not that far.

George 40:55

Not that far. It's here now, honestly. It's here now. So we're gonna be able to do that.

Using AI To Raise The Bar

Robby 40:59

I'm talking like hire a robot.

George 41:01

Yeah, yeah, proper robot machine there to do the the task. Yeah, I I still think there's it it's to be a I I think if you're a an employee looking for a job, I think there's more onus on you these days to be a good performer. Because you're gonna get shown up real quick, I feel these days. With AI. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're gonna get shown up really, really quick. I I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Normally I would have hired another contract administrator in my business, but because I've been able to utilize AI in certain elements of the business, it's made me hold off employing someone today. Because now I can utilize AI to help the business in certain aspects to do certain tasks and do certain things. And it's like, well, I don't need someone here to do that. That used to take someone two, three hours. I've just done it in the space of five to ten minutes. And uh, not to say I'm not going to, because I'm definitely going to, but once I get secure the next lot of projects, I'll be like, okay, cool. This person has to come in. They'll utilize the new process being AI or the new system that we're using being AI. And now they can deliver not just three projects, but 10 projects. And in order for me to still go out now and hire this person, I definitely am going to be looking for a particular caliber of person. I'm going to be looking for someone that is going to bring huge value to the team, to the business. So I think, yeah, you have to be now. You have to be because there's, I would look at it and go, well, why am I going to hire someone that can't do the job as good as, say, the technology that we have in place, or they can't utilize that technology? Well, I'm sorry, I can't, you can't work here. I'm going to go find someone else. So when you do get to the point where you can start being a little bit picky and choosy, uh, I think you should. I think you should have a really high standard for the people that work here. And I'm I've I've even been looking now at doing like an onboarding thing with my employees, new employees that come on board so they can understand what we're about, understand like whether it's through a video or some sort of training before like a they actually come on and you know, learn about the culture, learn about the business, learn about certain things, and that'll be part of the process for them coming on and being part of the journey at the at the business.

Robby 43:25

You know, when I

Costco As A Business Case Study

Robby 43:26

look back at um when I did my apprenticeship at Mercedes, they had a phenomenal, like you know what, you know what this is the business journey, this entrepreneurial journey has taught me. I look at everything as a business now, right? Like everything. Like I go on a flight and I'm assessing how the customer service happens. Yeah, you know what's a phenomenal business? Real side Tony, Costco.

George 43:53

Yeah, right. Do you know I've never been? What I have never stepped foot into a Costco. Are you serious? I swear to God. Are you serious? I swear to God, never step foot into a Costco. Dude, what are you doing? I don't know. Do you want to take me this way? Let's go, dude. We'll go after this. That's it. Didn't it close down? Wasn't it in Darklands? Yeah. Has that closed down? That one's closed down. Is there another one? There's like seven.

Robby 44:12

Is there? Yeah. It might be five. Is that what you just go bulk by stupid shit? Just go go check it out. I think you'll you'll appreciate the business model. Yeah, cool.

George 44:22

They just they do. Do you have to be a member? Yeah. Can I be friends and family? Like, could you take me? Yeah, you can come in with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can't go in by myself. Stop me at the door.

Robby 44:31

You've got to stand your membership in here. Yeah.

George 44:34

Does it cost does it cost to be a member?

Robby 44:36

It Costco.

George 44:37

Yeah, it Costco.

Robby 44:39

Um of course it costs. Yeah. Yeah. $60 a year. It's fuck all. It's too much. Hey, hey. You're gonna talk about a phenomenal business. You know, you can tell, looking back now, you can tell how long a business has been running for and how much things they have in place to handle every single thing that goes wrong. You know what I mean? And I think Costco is a fun like they they are a business that ridiculously understands their client, everything. Everything they've got's big for a start. Uh they've got everything. Like when I say they've got everything, I'm sorry, like there's not many places where you can buy lettuce in one aisle and then walk to the next aisle and buy a carjack. I'm serious. Yeah. And then go to the next aisle and buy TV. Yeah. What the fuck's happening here? Um wild. Uh, but they do these little things that I find really cool. Like they sell a hot dog and a drink for a dollar ninety nine. Which I think is like, there's no way you're making money on this. Like, there is absolutely no fucking way, unless that hot dog is not meat. There is no way you are doing you're making money on a dollar ninety nine for a hot dog and a soda.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Yeah.

Robby 45:52

Right? They sell a slice of pizza for three dollars. Hey, everyone, you go there and the cafe is packed every single time. Good pizza. Yeah.

George 46:02

Oh, coming from a pizza connoisseur. Seven, two. You haven't. Ah, seven. Um, you haven't done a pizza review in quite some time, Robbie. I've heard a lot of people been asking me, they say to me that, hey, I hear you're close with Robbie. When's he bringing back the pizza reviews? Yeah, they're not coming back.

Robby 46:20

Um, but the uh the business is phenomenal. And going back to the Mercedes example I was giving, they had a phenomenal recruitment process, you know, and I think as businesses age, they tend to have way more things in line that are working really well for what they do. So

Mercedes Training Systems That Scale

Robby 46:39

I'll explain the the Mercedes one. This is obviously really big business, uh, but they had a thing where they hired six people, six new apprentices every year at the same time. And they had a dedicated person called an apprentice master. And that person would train the first year apprentices for the first year. So your first year apprentice, there's six of you, it's like cool, you're gonna you're gonna spend time with me. We're gonna work on these two hoists, and I'm gonna show you guys how to do everything. Do you know what I mean? So that by the time you're on a set you're abuse becomes second year, you can then go out into the onto the workshop floor on your own.

George 47:14

Yeah, and that's only to hold your hand.

Robby 47:15

Yeah, you know what I mean. But I'm gonna hold your hand for the first year, you're gonna do some cleaning, you're gonna do some fuck shit, you're gonna do and it really was, dude. You had to go fucking clean the mops every day, dude. Go take the mops, take them downstairs, wash them down, clean the buckets every day for a whole year. Um, but the recruitment process was phenomenal because they constantly fed and they they would hire fully qualified people too.

George 47:40

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 47:41

But that was kind of like ad hoc, you know. But they had this system that was constantly feeding like they knew okay, their workshop is the machine. They had this system that was constantly for every year, six new people would come into the system, and in four years' time, those six people were qualified technicians, and honestly, I don't think there was a single year where all six made it all the way.

George 48:07

Yeah, I was gonna ask, I was just about to say.

Robby 48:09

No, yeah, people drop off, people drop out. Sometimes they fire people, they're like someone will come in, they're like, it's not just not a fit. Like, can't like you know what I mean? Doesn't know the first thing about cars, can't drain oil. Yeah, he's a drainer. Um, but I thought that was really You made it through, you did the whole your whole apprenticeship there.

George 48:28

Me, yeah. Do you find uh I'm curious, like you know how you go and work for a volume builder, for example, you go and work for a big commercial builder, there's the stigma that you won't get the same experience of working with a backyard mechanic. Do you think you still learnt everything you needed to learn at a big organization like that as a mechanic? As an apprentice mechanic?

Robby 48:50

Yeah, so there's a couple things.

George 48:51

So I think Because I'll teach you to master Mercs.

Robby 48:55

Yes. But there was also the the the thing in the automotive world was if you can do it on a Mercedes, you can do it on anything. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's the most complex like it's it's sorry, I shouldn't say the most complex, but it's a very complex vehicle compared to a Toyota.

George 49:09

You know what? I'm gonna need to pick your brain later about that, about something with a Mercedes. Yeah, okay.

Robby 49:15

So it's a it's a it's a much more complex vehicle. So it's like if you can come in and do this on a Mercedes, you can do it on anything. I also myself, I used to always do backyarders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I used to do I sort of work on your own cars as well. I used to love everything. Yeah. Um, dude, I'll I'll share a funny story. I was a second-year apprentice, my uncle calls me and he goes, Hey, uh my my mate needs his clutch changed. There's no not many manual Mercedes in Australia. Yeah, yeah. I'd never done a clutch. I didn't even know at this point in my career, I didn't even know how a clutch works. Like I knew how to drive manual, but I didn't understand the mechanics behind it. I don't know. Do you do you know how a clutch works? Not yeah, yeah. Most people don't, dude. It's quite complex. Yeah, and he's like, Can you do it? Like, he just he just needs a clutch change. He just needs a clutch change. It's like, yeah, cool, bring it, dude. This guy brings a fucking massive high-lux, and I'm gonna do a clutch on the floor. Not even in a hoist. It was first of all, it cost me money, like I lost money on the job. Secondly, it was there for like three weeks, it should have been there for like a weekend. Um thirdly, I had six people. This is no word of a lie, dude. I swear to god, if any of my mates at the time are listening to this, they will know the exact roar that happened when we got the transmission back in. Because, dude, did you know how big a four-wheel drive transmission is? I could not get it back in. I couldn't have to call all the boys over, and there was two jacks under the car, and we're all sitting there shaking, and it's like, and then when it slid in, dude, and it sat, it was like, yeah, and we all got up and fucking it was it might be the greatest celebration of my whole life, dude. To date, it was the most phenomenal thing. Um, but those experience that taught me so much, dude. That taught me so, so, so much. Because I was willing to it cost me money fucking at the time. I was gonna call the guy and be like, listen, bro, I'm not gonna be a mechanic anymore. I don't know, come take you. I don't know, like I was it was just everything was going wrong. Um, but I was willing to take on those experiences, and I think a combination of working on the highest quality of vehicle and and and hey, I will back Mercedes. I don't know where they're at now, I think they're kind of but at the time the cars are phenomenal. Um and being willing to you know risk it and learn on off my own bat, uh combination of those two things, I think game is skill set to I can almost fix anything. Like someone can bring me a vacuum, and if it's not working, I'd be like, let's see.

George 51:57

Logically, let's pull it apart and see what's going on.

Robby 51:59

Yeah, so it's like, well, let's work out how it works, okay, and then we can see where it's failing. Like, um I won't. If you bring me a vacuum, I will not fix it. But uh yeah, so going back to your question, uh I I can see how working for like a Metricon or something might limit your ability to do custom elements. Because they might work within a certain thing. But I'll tell you what Mercedes taught me that I wouldn't have learnt at a small place. Systems and processes. Because like that is system and process for everything, that it was like, hey, this is how you do this, this is how you do that. Here, when you when this happens, you fill this in. When you want to put annual leave in, you fill that in.

George 52:40

But I'd also dare say, even with the delivery of like I imagine that would service a lot of cars a day.

Robby 52:45

Yeah, I think we're working on that 60, 70 cars a day.

George 52:48

So how can you not have a system in place to do to be able to deliver that?

Robby 52:52

Yeah, it's like the the the volume of uh cars coming in and out to every single day. And then the beauty was I got to see the front end. That was the good side. So I didn't just see because you because you learn as an employee, you learn here to here. It's like this is my role. You don't think about when the car gets washed, you don't think about what the customer says when they drop it off, you don't think, you know, you're just like this is my role, but then I got to see the full service end to end, and that was really good because I did the middle part and then I did the outer parts when I became a service advisor. And I got to really understand, oh, like so. If I don't do this part, they can't do their part. And it taught me the skill of like connecting the dots and understanding the full journey, which I think most people fail at. And they're like, but I fucking did my beer. And he's like, Yeah, but that's not gonna like think about and I say this to my team so much. I'm like, think about the whole fucking thing, you know what I mean? Like, think about the consumer, what they want, think about end to end, yeah. Think about don't just think about I ticked my box. It's like think about every single part of the process. Um, yeah, and it taught me that. So, but really cool to see like a really cool recruitment system.

George 54:08

It's like it would have taken them a long time to to get that to the point where where it was.

Faster Hiring Through Experts And Mentors

George 54:17

Yeah, and you kind of touched on it a little bit before. I think it was again before our before we started this podcast, but it's like who who could you bring in to help you accelerate that? Why do you always have to learn that recruitment process? Why don't you think of hire recruiters? Yeah, well, you could hire a recruiter, yes, or you could hire a consultant to show you or bring in a process that you could hire really good quality people. Yeah, and it's the same in any element of your business, any system in your business. You can bring someone in to help you accelerate that. Now, whether that's a consultant, like a contractor, or whether it's a uh and a direct employee, you can use a mentor. Yeah, or a mentor. Absolutely. You can bring those people in to help you and give you that guidance and give you that. Otherwise, you've got to learn through experience and go, okay, well, let me hire this person. Hire them, oh, they weren't good. Okay, well, now I know what I don't want. Now let me go hire this person. Oh, okay, now I don't I know what I don't want there as well. All right, let me go again. And that might take you a year. Whereas if you could go pay someone 10,000 bucks and they come in and say, listen, use this process to hire your next hire and do it like this and go like that and use this fall and do these. Yeah, these are the things, these are the questions you ask. Hey on board them. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you've got the birth the perfect employee that comes in, that executes, that helps you deliver. And it's taken you two months, not 12.

Robby 55:35

And and another thing with that as well is I think people will have more confidence in hiring your first employee is a wild first step. Because you kind of like fuck, like a whole wage. Like I've got to pay, like I've got to, you know what I mean? When it's you, you don't care as much. Yeah. But when it's like now I've got someone that's dependent, it's like a level of pressure that you might not be comfortable with initially. So I think having someone that you can kind of fall back on and you know, bounce ideas off, ask questions to, be like, hey man, this happened, which work do I do? Or like, dude, there's so much stuff you don't know about like work cover. You gotta get work cover. Yeah, you know what I mean? You gotta pay super, you gotta like having someone and you help you navigate all that as well is super helpful.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Yeah.

Robby 56:26

Because you just there's no none of that shit's in a book. No. Do you know what I mean?

George 56:33

Which is stupid. It should be. It should be taught, yes. It should be 100%. A lot of this stuff should be taught. But a lot of people go into business without thinking about any of these things. They're just like, all right, yeah, I'm sure I can hire someone. It should be easy. You know, they'll think a lot of the processes are easy, but they don't until they actually get into it and like, oh shit, I actually don't know how to do this.

Robby 56:54

Yeah, I don't know the hiring process, I don't know the the laws around it. You know what I mean? I don't know what my requirements are. How do I make sure I don't get taken to fair work? You know what I mean? Like that whole yeah, yeah.

George 57:06

I I mean, I'd be so I'm so surprised at how many people that I've spoken to uh in the construction space that don't have employee contracts in place. What do so many, so many. No no contracts? No employee contracts in place.

Robby 57:21

What are they there's the agreement? Well, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pay 100 grand. Yeah, cool, thanks.

George 57:26

Yeah. It's like fuck, hopefully the money comes in. That's wild. Um wild from both perspectives, not just like from the employee, but also the employer.

Robby 57:38

Yeah, and and and especially like in this day and age. Yeah, like you could whip something up so even if it's like a general Yeah, just something real quick. You know what's amazing? How many um loopholes in contracts there can be?

George 57:53

Yeah, yeah. You can. Everything's arguable, even something that's in the contract, you can argue it. Yeah, it's all clear. Yeah, like if you you said, Oh, well, that it says that you must do this Monday to Friday. It's like, oh well, that's not very clear. Yeah. So that's a yeah, exactly. Yeah, and what's the inter my interpretation of that was different. Yeah. And then you go to court over it and like, oh yeah, well, I could see how that could be taken. And you're like, are you serious? It's literally in black and white. Stupid, yeah. Yeah, you can argue anything.

Robby 58:22

So

Contracts, Loopholes, And AI Reading

Robby 58:23

that's what I've learned over here. I'll share this story to wrap up. And this is about contracts. Uh so I recently wanted to scrap my gym membership. Okay. So I took the contract. My gym membership was coming up to the end in a month. So I just took the contract, uploaded it to Claude, and said, Hey Claude, I'm looking at killing off this thing. I don't because in the contract it says if you don't let us know, it just renews for another you're you're up for another 12 months. I'm like, I don't want to be up for another 12 months. Like, so let me tell them now. So I uploaded to Claude, Claude says, Cool, there's actually a relocation fee. You've just moved houses, uh, and you should be able to get out of this for uh $300 something. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I send him an email. Hey, I've moved houses, blah, blah, blah. Please let me know what you need. Um, need to end the contract. And then they said, Cool. Um, because you're taking up the relocation clause in the contract, uh, you need to pay out four weeks of the thing, which ends up being more than the cancellation fee. And I'm like, um, excuse me, my con here's a contract. It says that there's a clause in there that says if we move, you know, we pay this figure. And then they come back to me and they said, Oh, uh our terms and conditions were updated, but upon checking our system, we found that uh the email didn't send to you for some reason. So we will honor the $300 thing. And then I'm like, hold on. So I signed this agreement and you guys can fucking flip the terms and conditions on me. So I took the email, I put it into Claude, and I said, Hey, can they actually change the terms and conditions on me? Like without me signing a new agreement, and there's a clause in there that says yes, they can. Yeah, and I'm like, that's fucking wild. So you guys can just turn around because hey, we've all received fucking emails that say, Here's an update of terms and conditions, or here's an update to our privacy policy. No one fucking reads them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one.

George 1:00:16

Yeah, I delete them, I delete them immediately and I get angry.

Robby 1:00:18

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So it's like you never read that. You don't know what the updates are because you're not going to go through the whole fucking policy to learn what the no one cares.

George 1:00:27

No, no, not anymore. Especially they normally come from bigger companies, like say, you know, Google, Netflix, yeah, whatever. They'll say updated T's and C's. Yeah. And then you're just like, all right, whatever. Whatever. Yeah, just delete. It's literally a delete. And it's like in there, it says, Oh no, we can up our rates at any time and you're locked in for the next 12 months.

Robby 1:00:43

Yeah, and it's like, and it's like if you don't combat it at that point, then you've missed your chance. Yeah. And and I found that to be wild because I'm like, hold on. So if your system didn't fuck up and you guys didn't send me an email, I would have been out money here. Yeah, because you guys chose to email me a long list of fucking words that I wasn't willing to spend time reading. But he how's that beauty of AI now?

George 1:01:04

Like that's for put it on the other foot because now you don't have to read that. Say, hey, yeah, but it should have just gone here's even so you can sort this out for me.

Robby 1:01:11

Just to be clear, even that, you're the next email you get that says we've updated our privacy plot, you're not putting it into the cloud. Never. You're not. You're just gonna be like, fuck off. Yeah, like I've got 47 emails here I've got to attend to. I'm not gonna say, hey, Claude, break this down, tell me what's been updated. Yeah, I don't care. But yeah, I was I was quite shocked to find out that they can flip the script on you and you can't do anything about it. Yeah.

George 1:01:34

Yeah, there you go. Isn't that wild? It is, it is. Oh I'm just gonna send business everyone, isn't it?

Robby 1:01:39

I'm just gonna send an email now and just say our terms and conditions have been updated.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Yeah.

Robby 1:01:43

And just um I found out to be fucking wild. I was like, you guys can what's the point of signing a contract? If you can change the rules, what's the point?

George 1:01:50

I know.

Contractors, Respect, And Collaboration

George 1:01:52

I know. There is one more thing that we meant that we didn't mention in this convo, and I just want to bring it up as well. Contractors. Yeah. All right. So you often employ contractors. I employ a fuckload of contractors. How do you treat them? How do you treat them? Because they're not part of your team, they're not your employees. How do you treat your contractors?

Robby 1:02:11

Me, I I treat team gets like they don't get the 90 day catch-ups and stuff. But of course, uh, I treat them like team because at the end of the day, the product they deliver is a direct reflection on our brand.

George 1:02:27

100%. I would say you're only as good as the people that work for you. Yeah. That's it. You could go out there and say we're a high-end architectural luxury home builder. I didn't build shit. I didn't build anything. I did not pick up a hammer, did not pick up a drill. It was all done by other people. So you're gonna need to make sure that the people you're employing, your contractors, are on board with what you're about and what you're doing as well. And there's a level of, yes, they are your extended team. And I like to use the same people across projects as well. So, as in, take that whole group. If they've done a good job and they've just yeah, it's like, hey, why are we gonna go out and mix this up? Let's go grab that group, bring them here, build this job. Grab that group, bring them here, build that job. And you develop the relationship, you develop the conversations, you develop everything.

Robby 1:03:16

Mutual respect, it's it's it's uh you work with each other, you know how you know what the expectations are.

George 1:03:21

Like you work, you walk on site and see the boss, so the company that you've employed, you end up knowing their employees too, and they know you and vice versa, and and it's very powerful stuff.

Robby 1:03:32

Uh, do you think I kind of know your answer here, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. But like, how do you think most people treat their contractors?

George 1:03:41

Yeah, I look, I'd I'd like to think most people with their subbies not just in building, but just they there's still a level of respect there, I think. You're employing them because they can do a job.

Robby 1:03:53

Yeah, but Ideally, yeah, but I feel like people don't treat them there's a level of respect. Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, but so there's you can you can respect someone and not like them. Yeah, yeah, you're good. Uh you can Do you think fear is a prerequisite for respect? No, no, no, like some level of fear, like either a fear of losing that person or a fear of that person, or you know what I mean? Like there's has got to be some level of fear association, because if you don't give a fuck about the other person and don't care for them and have zero interest in them, and it's like, do you respect them? You're like, yeah.

George 1:04:42

I'm just curious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, um it begs the question. Yeah.

Robby 1:04:46

Um but yeah, I I feel like the the thing tends to be like me versus you.

George 1:04:53

Yes, and I think that's a huge mistake.

Robby 1:04:55

Yeah, because also we are contractors. Our company, what we do, we're contractors. That's right. People engage us to come in and do particularly come in and create my content, come in and run my SEO, come in and build my website. We're a contractor. We come in, we do a job and we leave. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Um, and I find sometimes, not most people are pretty good, but sometimes we get the you know, it's me versus you kind of mentality. Like, like I'll give you fucking the stupidest example. I had a client, not a client anymore, who would not tell us about the leads. They would like hide it. And I'd be like, hey, like, uh you know, what happened to the lead on Tuesday? He's like, Oh yeah, yeah, they were good. And I'm like, why didn't you tell me about them? And he'd be like, And we track everything, yeah. But like they would purposefully, but they'll be like, hey, no leads. I was like, what about Tuesday? They'd be like, Oh yeah, they're all right. And like, why why didn't you bring them up? They'd be like, Oh, because you know, like, well, I I don't want you to stop what you're doing. And I'm like, So you think I'm gonna be like, hey, you've got enough. Leads, bro. Like, let me fucking let me turn the tap off and go hand some leads over to someone else. It's like, what's the fuck? Like, you know what I mean?

George 1:06:06

Like, what's the scarcity mentality? And it's also it's yeah, it's not a collaborative approach. I every relationship I've ever had that's been successful in my life has been collaborative. Every single one. It's gotta be dude. But it people don't think that. They think I have to be combative. I have to, it's me versus you. Yeah, and it's like it's not, man. It's not. It is the complete opposite. It is the complete opposite. The most money I've ever made in my life, the most success I've ever had in my life, it's when we've got a collaborative approach to whatever we're going out to do. That's from subby to builder, from client to builder, from employee to employer. Every single time, it's when it's a collaborative approach. The second thing I'm out to get you, you're out to get me. Man, it's going downhill very quickly. Very, very quickly. When the trust is gone, when the respect is gone, I think that's um that's when the time to tap out of that relationship. And you do come across that. I've tapped out of plenty of relationships and will probably still continue to in the future. There's plenty of people that we've engaged as contractors, as employees, as clients, that we're like, look, journey was the journey, all the best for the future.

Robby 1:07:10

That's um, I think you always have to have that filter on. Like you always got to be willing to. It's like you gotta be willing to fire the employee who doesn't fit. You've got to be willing to tap out of the relationships with contractors that are just not serving you. Um, but you know, if you are a contractor, you want to make sure that you have that approach. And if you hire contractors, you want to make sure that you have that same approach. Like have a have a collaborative mindset around it. Um and yeah, put everything in writing. Like everything. Like, dude, just for just for context, like I'll I'll show you how much I mean this. We know each other quite well. If you engage us to do something, it's in writing. It's in writing. Not because I'm like, it's just in writing, dude. This is our process, follow the process. Yeah, you wanted a shoot done the other day. You yelled at me. You came down and said, Hey, can we get someone here on this site? And I said, dude, fill out the fucking form. Yeah, that's our process.

George 1:08:04

He actually said it like that. Yelled at me, but he said it much maybe.

Robby 1:08:06

Fill out the form, that's our process. Everyone goes through the same thing because then everything's documented, it's all there, all the team are across it. It's not that George told me and I haven't relayed the information or he didn't relay it in. It's like just follow the process, man. We built this in so that everyone in our team can work in the same way, just do the fucking thing. Yeah, and it's like you should be doing that with all your contractors and everyone that you do any form of business with. Rule number one.

George 1:08:35

Number one, numero uno. Good

Put It In Writing And Keep Going

George 1:08:39

stuff. Good stuff. So if you don't have a team, go get a team. If you have a team, start sitting down and having chats with them. Yeah, it's worth the worth the time, worth the investment. You're investing in them already, you know. And there's this great saying that I love, and it's two goals conversation, two directors speaking to each other. One of them goes, What if we invest all this time and money into our employees and they leave us? The other director turns around and says, What if we don't and they stay? It's true. So true. It's true. First time I heard that, I was like, That it was a bit of a lightning, uh, a lightning bulb, whatever, whatever it is. Lightning hit the hit lightning struck somewhere. Something happened with it. And um yeah, I I loved it and it made complete sense to me.

Robby 1:09:28

Yeah, and I I think you know, if you are in a position where you know you need to be hiring someone, this is your sign. You know what I mean? Like, just fucking take the leap.

George 1:09:40

Do it. Um you'll never look back once you realize, once you get some good employees in your business, you will never look back.

Robby 1:09:46

Yeah, dude. You will get hands down, you will never ever. Ah, I shouldn't say never, but you will almost never um go without it. It just there becomes things that you're like, hey, I can't be doing that thing anymore.

George 1:10:01

I I could almost think of nothing worse than me having to go on site and supervise.

Robby 1:10:06

Yeah, that's it. I don't think I don't need to be doing to do that.

George 1:10:10

Yeah, I would be on site supervising, doing whatever I'm doing, going, I'm not in the right space. I should not be here.

Robby 1:10:16

And when when you start to see things progressing without you, it's a it's a it's a funny but great feeling. Yeah. Because you're like, okay, like that's good. Like, because now it's like we've built the system is working. It's called an organization because it is a bunch of things organized together to work in a particular way. Do you know what I mean? It's like that is doing what it needs to do, and that's what you want. You want a business that you can walk away from for a day, a week, a month, and it continues to grow. And that takes time to build as well. Like, you need to build different elements, you need to have marketing sorted, you need to have operations sorted, sales sorted. And yeah, but that's the goal. That's the goal. Make yourself redundant. Yeah, that's it. Make yourself redundant and then go get a job.

Subscribe, Share, And Costco Hot Dogs

George 1:11:03

Love it. All right, thanks for tuning in, guys. Much appreciated. Good chat, Mr. RC. Hope to see you here next week. If you haven't subscribed, you should definitely subscribe and tell everyone you know.

Robby 1:11:14

Um, just before we go, do you want to go to Costco?

George 1:11:19

Steal it. I'm pumped now. I want to get a dude dollar dollar fifty dollar ninety nine hot dog. Is that so is that real?

Robby 1:11:26

Yeah. Dollar ninety nine. That's what I'm saying to you. It's like what so you can go fit if you've got a family of four, you can feed your family for eight bucks. What? It's like you can't be making money on this. I might get too. But let me tell you, yeah, dude, phenomenal business. Like for the business model. No one is sad in there. Even the employees, like they're all happy. Everyone's happy, everyone's eating. The employees don't talk to you, they talk to themselves while they're working, and you're like, but you're not upset about it. You're like, huh? Like you did not stop working the whole time. Great business. So good. All right, thanks, everybody guys.