How To Protect Your Time As Your Business Grows

Your calendar is stacked, your phone won’t stop, and somehow the “microwave problem” still becomes your problem. We start with the reality of running a growing business when you’re juggling 30 fires at once, and why the real skill is learning to protect your time without breaking your culture. We share what it looks like to delegate for real, set decision limits, and stop being the default fixer for things your team should own.

Then we get into the spicy leadership questions: should employees know what each other earns, and can salary transparency build trust without creating resentment? We talk about what we’ve seen work, why clear pay bands and competency-based progression can beat secrecy, and how to define roles so your team can move projects forward even when you’re in meetings, on site, or simply unavailable. Along the way we unpack the right kind of pushback, the difference between being busy and being productive, and why “common sense” needs systems.

We also go deep on the human side of management in the construction industry and small business: firing decisions, personal ethics, side cash jobs on weekends, Saturday expectations, overtime trade-offs, and the right to disconnect after hours. We finish with an honest look at mental health on site, banter versus bullying, and whether modern culture is building resilience or just changing how we talk about pressure.

If you’re building a team, leading projects, or trying to step into a true CEO role, this one is packed with practical takeaways and uncomfortable truths. Subscribe for more, share this with a business owner who needs it, and leave a review with the question you want us to tackle next.

Transcript

Welcome And The Busy Season

Robby 0:00

Clippity clap, welcome back to the million dollar day. Listen, get the rabbit injury. We are um we're doing some serious AI stuff, George. I don't believe you, not every second. Uh in light of that, I was like, I I've been busy. Right. Like I don't know how if I've been this busy before. To the point where every day I'm leaving and I'm there's a level of uncomfortability with the amount of things I'm leaving undone.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yes, I f I know the feeling. I feel like that now. I feel like that walking into this podcast.

Robby 0:38

I almost messaged you during the day and said, Hey George, um Let's call it off. Let's do it tomorrow. Yeah, can we just push it back or something?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Do you know uh if you had sent me that, oh the you would have got the quickest response you've ever received.

Robby 0:50

No, and like I'll give you an example, right? Like at the point now where it's like if I'm gonna go into a meeting and if there's any reason in the world I can push this back, I'll push it back. Or not any reason, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Or not or delegate it to someone else to do or something like that.

Robby 1:04

It's like okay, cool. If I can get out of this meeting right now, I will because there's about a million things that need my attention, and yeah, it's just it's a lot. How do you handle when you've got like 30 fires?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah, good topic.

Managing Thirty Fires At Once

Robby 1:25

Hey, good topic. This is not even a topic, isn't it? This is just us talking, yeah. I I mean I'm I feel like that right this second. Yeah, so there's like the 30 fires, but then it's like and you're sitting there like and you're like you're putting out these fires, you're like, Oh, I've got this under control, man. You're knocking one out of time, and then someone comes to you and says, Hey man, like something got this fire here too. What not even something like like my food's not warm? Yeah, yeah. And you're like, and you look at them and you think, like, I understand that's important to you. Yeah, you can't see the fires. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can't see that I'm putting out all these fires here. Yeah, I but it's like but it's but they have a very valid point, the person. So you you kind of they're not being unreasonable at all, but they're coming to you with something that's important to them.

George 2:15

Yeah, like microwaves. Well you said microwaves not stop working, you know, or whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robby 2:20

And you just kind of look at them and you're like, hey, fuck the microwave, eat it cold. Like do you know what I mean? Like, this is the problem, this is your beauty.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Go get takeout, bro. Like, boost, yeah, figure it out.

Robby 2:29

Send me, get thank, I'll pay. Just stop talking to me. Yes, you know what, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, yeah, you cry to the creature, and you kind of look at people and you think, like, yeah, the problems you're coming to me with now, man. And like, I understand, but also I don't give a fuck.

George 2:47

Yeah, is there a level of annoyance with that? Do you get annoyed? Yeah, yeah, me too. Me too. And you're right, it's we're whether we gotta be the bigger person, you gotta understand, yes, that's a problem for you right now. But a lot of the time I do give pushback too. You know, if someone comes to me and says, Hey, you know, where should I order timber from? I said, come on, mate. Like, figure it out, dude. Figure it out. Like, figure it. What would I say? What do you think the answer would be? Yes, because we've got these core suppliers, but maybe you could take a little bit of initiative and say, well, okay, is Bowen's going to be more competitive or is Bunnings going to be more competitive? Hey, how much are sticks? Hey, how much are sticks? And then you get your price. Okay, cool, I'll go with Bunnings, Bunnings, or Bowen's or whoever you go with. I don't care. Right? Ultimately just get the sticks there. Why do you need me to hold your hand for every little thing? So then there would be some pushback in the sense of if there's something that they can handle and do, I'd I'd actually more times than not, and this is when I'm not busy, mind you, not just when I'm flat out. I'd be like, hey, this isn't not to not to put myself on, like to be from an arrogant point of view, okay, this isn't a fucking director's question, mate. My dad used to be like that too when he worked for me back in the day. He used to call me up and be like, hey, um, can you call the electrician and tell him to do this and blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, no. I go, I will not, I I need you to understand, and I say to him like I could speak to him that way. I said, I need you to understand something. I'm not calling anybody ever. You need to call them. That's what your role is. It's not mine. If I'm going to call him, then why are you working here? Okay, so I I put it out very plainly, and they can it actually happened to me last week. My uh one of my supervisors messaged in the group chat and he goes, Hey, have you spoken? He goes, because I put it in there, I go, Hey, have you spoken to, have you booked in the carpet layer? Because he's got to come in and do the job. And he's like, No, no, he goes, You said you spoke to him. I said, Yeah, I speak to him about anything. I go, but I've never, I wouldn't book him in. I go, and to be perfect, and I said it like for full transparency, I will never book in any trades. Do not rely on me to book in your trades on your job. That is your role. That's what I pay you to do. So if you said, Oh, I thought you booked him in, no, never. I would never book because even if I did book him in, what if I booked him in on Friday and the supervisor was like, Oh, I'm painting that room on Friday? So I can't have too many people coordinating the one thing. That is your responsibility, your role. Always assume I have never booked any single trade in. And then that way they stop coming to me for questions like that.

Robby 5:13

Yeah, but that's so there's there's a difference between because like I've been I've been guilty of overpushing something like that. And um where I've said, like, hey man, like I've explained, you know, the reason why you you have a rule here is so that these things don't have to come to me.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Do you know what I mean?

Robby 5:33

And the idea, I want you to take some initiative and I want you to think like what what if I wasn't here now, like if I was if I was not in the office today, I was sick, I was away, I was on holidays, what would you do?

George 5:42

Yeah, overseas, different time zones.

Robby 5:43

How would you or I'm in a meeting? Like, what are you gonna do? Yeah, how are you gonna do how you gonna warm up your but then also then things can sometimes move forward, and then you can look and be like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, who did this?

George 5:54

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 5:55

And then be like, oh, we're trying to move it forward without you.

George 5:57

And it's like okay, like and then you can have some boundaries there.

Robby 6:02

Yeah, you can't like because then it's like it's my fault.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, they can't warm their food, so they've gone and bought a brand new mealer oven, yeah, like extalled it into the kitchen, like, hey, look, we've got a brand new oven, it's yeah, it cooks meals, it does cakes, yeah.

Robby 6:15

And we hired a maker.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

We hired a baker.

George 6:18

Um, yeah, but like, yes, yeah, I mean, yes, you have to give them uh there's good just going to be parameters there, doesn't there? What's the parameters though? Whether it's a monetary sense. No, no, uh, the thing about common sense is it's not common.

Robby 6:29

Yeah.

George 6:30

And I would say if it's a monetary consequence, say you have up to a thousand bucks to set to sort a problem out if I'm not here. Okay. If it starts to get over a thousand bucks or if it's over, whatever your limit is, you might have five hundred bucks, you might have a hundred bucks. You can sort out a hundred dollar problem. The more senior the person, maybe the bigger the spend they have. But I would put provisions in place. So say, for example, okay, I'm gonna use this now because it's gonna happen to me in the next, what month are we in? August. Yep. In the next three months, in the next three to four months, I'm gonna really start to become a true CEO of my business. So that means I need to put someone, well, my GM's gonna step up and be a managing director. And then I'd be like, okay, mate, you now have the authority to spend this much money without talking to me. You can make those calls. You can spend 20, 30, 50k. Understand that there's like you've got to do the right thing by the business. And if you make a 50K call, like you've got to justify it. You're not just gonna go out and spend 50k of the business's money. There's gonna be reporting, there's gonna be a whole trail of reasons and things there. And if it was the best decision to make, well, that's your decision to make now. You've got to do it. So you have to give, and but then I wouldn't give that same 50k to a supervisor, I wouldn't give that same 50k to an administrator or to someone else or an apprentice. So I think there's got to be levels to what they can do, because most problems can be solved with money, and in which case they're not a problem, they're an expense. Uh, and and then you can turn around and say, well, if it's just something like, oh, I've double booked a meeting, what should I do? Okay, well, that's not gonna, that's not a money issue. That's just timing, that's management. Well, make a decision. Like, what are you gonna do? Maybe you can push one meeting back or cancel both meetings or do them on a different day, whatever it's gonna be. Figure it out.

Robby 8:23

It's um yeah, it's it's obviously easier said than done.

George 8:30

But if you haven't had that conversation with your client, with your employees either, how are they to know? They're not exactly so. That's where you've got to take that responsibility. You might be putting out a thousand spot fires, but you haven't taken the time to make train them effectively. Say, hey, this is how I'm gonna be busy throughout the day. I don't want you to come to me with these things. And I I reckon it's a really important thing. This is where really understanding everyone's role in the business and them understanding their role is really important. Because if a CA knows exactly what he's gonna do, if a videographer knows exactly what his role is, then well, cool, you are you are completely responsible for that. Don't call me and say I what color grading should I be using on this video? A, I don't fucking know, I'm not a videographer, and B, that's what I employ you to do. Don't ask me stupid questions.

Robby 9:15

The other thing, something that's like uh I've always been of the the type to be like, hey, whatever you need, like I was always like and I've recently changed, and I was always like, hey, like whatever you need, like I'm here to support you. Yeah, my goal is to make sure you have everything you need, you can be a success in your role. Your goal is to do shit and be a success in your role. And yeah, more recently now I've been like, hey, you know, no, don't like can I have can can we get on like can I have some of your time? No, good. No, I think that's gonna happen.

George 9:50

I think that's great. No, you can see that's great. I can see you getting what do you need?

Robby 9:53

Go see them. Yeah, that why are you coming to me? Don't go see them, Mac.

George 9:56

Um that's awesome, man, because that show, I mean, just looking at that and you telling me that, that shows me that the business is growing because it's demanding different areas of you now, and you are just becoming more valuable. You are becoming more protective of your time because your time isn't spent on those. Yeah, and that's how I feel right now. It's like I'm I'm gonna, I've had to go and attend a couple of really important meetings today, and I had to go to site twice this morning. So I went to one job first thing in the morning, and then I went to another job um later in the morning, and then I came back for half an hour and then had another meeting at lunchtime, and now I'm here trying to get shit done that I have to do 5,000 things, and it's like fuck. Oh, and then walking into the podcast. So you you have to learn to really protect your time because now if I'm gonna turn around and be like, oh, let me whatever process this invoice, this contract, this so on and so forth, that's when you're just gonna be busy, not productive.

Robby 10:53

Yeah, you can get it's very easy to get caught up or or pulled in 97 different ways. Yeah, and um when we went to the uh acquisition.com, like the Alex Homosi training, yeah, and his wife was on stage and she said this thing, and she's like you need to get comfortable with letting a fire burn. Yeah, and I like this was like that uh I really resonated with what what she said really resonated with me. And it was like you need to get comfortable with letting a fire burn. Sometimes you need to know that the bin on fire is okay because the room's on fire, and I need to sort out the room on fire. The bin on fire, we can let that burn for a bit. Yeah, we'll come back to it. It's okay, like it's not gonna get bigger, hopefully. Uh you know what I mean? That'll sort itself out, and we can sort this out out here. Um, yeah, but definitely feel like that at the moment. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. So we were coming into this, uh, and as I said, I was about to tell you, hey, do we push this back? And then I thought, no, no, I'll just I'll just come

Using AI Agents To Stay Moving

Robby 11:57

up with something. And I'm doing so, dude. The way I work now is like multiple AI agents doing stuff. I'm just like, yeah, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. While I did that, I had a separate AI agent and I was like, hey, we need a hey, we need a podcast topic for today. And uh I heard someone ask I heard a question and it got me really thinking, and I thought that was gonna be a great topic. So I said, hey, I want a bunch of thought-provoking questions for things that we can answer on the podcast. So just very argumentative or uh thought-prov thought-provoking, controversial questions. Uh AI produced, but I think they're great. Yeah, cool. Because both sides, most of these questions, both sides can be right.

George 12:47

Yeah, cool. I think we'll have very similar answers on some of these, though.

Robby 12:52

Yeah, some of these though, you're like, oh yeah, right. Yeah, you're like, oh, I don't know what I'll do there.

George 12:57

Okay, cool. Let's go.

Robby 12:58

Um I like it. Yeah, so I just thought, you know, no guests today, obviously. Uh, and yeah, we just have a conversation about some random questions that uh can really get you thinking about particular things. Alright, what's the first one off the rank? Um where do we start? This is a good question because there's no right or wrong answer. Like if someone said yes and someone said no, you can't say no, you're wrong. You know what I mean?

Salary Transparency And Pay Progression

Robby 13:25

Should your crew know what each other earns?

George 13:28

Interesting.

Robby 13:32

Like would you be open to being like, hey, you're on a hundred, you're on one twenty, he's on one fifty, you're on sixty. And like having that open discussion and everyone being aware, because you know when you work in a big you've worked in big construction companies, when I used to work at Mercedes, it was frowned upon to speak upon your salary.

George 13:52

I think that's I think that is uh relevant in most industry in industry. Yeah, they don't want you talking about yeah, I think that's a cultural thing in Australia anyway, as far as how much people would earn.

Robby 14:05

They don't want you talking about how much they're gonna be.

George 14:06

But this way, my my employees don't know how much they earn. Yeah, each of them earn. So and it's also maybe it's a confidential thing because some people wouldn't want that. Often salary is linked to status as well. So you could be like, oh.

Robby 14:19

So is title? It's like saying, okay, don't give anyone a title.

George 14:21

Yeah, of course. And you would know, for example, an apprentice is getting a lot less than a fully qualified carpenter or a supervisor or a manager. So, yes, there would be that assumption there anyway. So it's like, do they want to know the answer? I'll give you an example with what I do. I'm quite open with how much money we make on projects. So all of my employees see the bottom line. They'll see that we're making 100, 200, 300, 500 on a particular project. So they'll see that per project.

Robby 14:53

What's the what's the a lot of people don't? I know a lot of methods. Why do you do that?

George 14:58

Well, I've got my budgets established, right, on the project, on a build. And I I remember this this was a thing when I used to work for a previous company where I would know what the project was making. I saw it as a fist pump when we made more than our initial margin. And it was something that I had to protect as the project manager for that company. And for that project, I was protecting the margin. And I would do that through letting gains, through other means of managing the project, finishing it early, and so on and so forth. So I saw it as a target and something that needed to be hit. And the way I saw it, and this is again individual, the success of the business was the success, the success of me. If the business did well, I got a bonus. If the business did well, I got on the better jobs. I got we I had a job next year, you know. So for me, I saw it that way. I never saw it as in, oh fuck, those guys, those directors are making bank and I'm just here slaving away. I never saw it like that. And I kind of would like to have people involved in the business that had that too. Yeah, but do you think um they look if they look if they look at it in that regard, they're probably not the right people to be working at this business and going, oh, stuff George look how much as in looking at it in a negative way. Oh, George is making so much money and I'm here slaving away for 50 grand a year or 100 grand a year and he's making five million. I said, okay, but then there's still checks and balances with that. This office here doesn't magically appear. Okay. Your cars and fuel cards and all the uniforms and the computers and the electricity, that doesn't just magically happen. There's expenses that come with that. So it's not just, yeah, George made a million dollars on this project. It's no, there's there's a whole bunch of things that come operationally that means uh this business stays open. So I'm I'm quite open with that aspect. I personally wouldn't share those those details. Although I think you could have a culture where that could work.

Robby 16:50

I think it could. What sort of culture would that be?

George 16:52

I don't know. As in one that you might say from you'd have to establish it from day one. It wouldn't be like like from the interview process. Just say, say, so you know everyone's open and transparent here, even with wages, with all this sort of stuff, but you'll still get people culturally that don't like that. And say, no, no, I don't want, I don't want this person knowing that I make $150,000 a year, because then it's like the tall poppy syndrome will probably come in, potentially. I will look at, you know, Josh over here is making 150k. I do twice the amount of work he's doing when I'm making 60k. Why is that the case? And that's where you might breed some content, you might breed some um resentment. I don't know.

Robby 17:34

I haven't done it. It's yeah, I know me either.

George 17:36

Um I just think it's a really interesting conversation because I keep it my my first initial well, it's no because I don't do it. So if I was gonna do it, I'd be like, yeah, man, let's do it, let's go ahead. Everyone knows what everyone's making. There are certain people, excuse me, there are certain people in the business that know. You know, high-level management would know.

Robby 17:52

What everyone, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, but so then you could also argue like, oh, you're in a position. And there's also people who wouldn't be classified as high-level management who would know. Like people who might access to books, accounts.

George 18:05

Oh, like even the accounts lady, yeah, you know, may not be the most senior person, but can obviously see payroll. Yeah, she can see how she sees all payrolls, yeah. She she's the one that hits send and it goes out, sees how much money's coming in, money's coming out. That's right.

Robby 18:17

Um, yeah, that's interesting. I find that I find that um very interesting. But you know what? I think um having a workplace where if we don't go into this post-capitalist world that everyone's talking about, uh, and having a workplace where it's like, cool, man, like hey, this is this is the ranks, and you do these things, like this is what I've always pictured and what I've tried to start to build, but it's far from concrete. Having a thing of like, this is the these are the ranks, and you come in and you come in at level one, and your level one is whatever the fucking name you want to give it, and it's like that's this is your wage at level one.

George 18:56

At level one.

Robby 18:57

You do you show um these things. What's the word initiative? No, not initiative. What's the word? Competency.

George 19:05

Yep.

Robby 19:05

You show competency in one, two, three, four, five, six, and then you go to and this much time minimum, you go to level two.

George 19:13

I I like the thing, I like the saying age doesn't determine ability. So same as time, because you could have a gun that does one, two, three, four, five in the space of six months and nails it. Yeah, yeah. You shouldn't have to do that for five years just to get to level two.

Robby 19:25

Yeah, so your your issue there isn't time, it's how much time.

George 19:28

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 19:29

But you also shouldn't move them forward in a month.

George 19:31

No, of course.

Robby 19:32

Yeah, so it might be like, cool, man, like you need to do this for 12 months.

George 19:36

Yeah, we need to we need to see that you can do it.

Robby 19:38

We need to see that you can do this and do it consistently for a period of time. And when done so, you move to level two. And then when you're at level two, this is what you get paid, this is your responsibilities, these are your remunerations, this is what we expect, this is how you get to level three. I think that could work well. I really do. Then it's like one, two, three, four, five, six, and then it's kind of like it gives someone clear uh progression. It's like, cool, man, like you know what you need to do. If you do those things, there's no reason you won't move forward. Yeah. If you don't do those things, you uh you won't move forward. And it's as simple as that. If you fail to meet those things, you're purely limiting your ability to earn more. And the f faster you move, the quicker you'll move up. And I think that creates like a you're you if someone's hungry, they're gonna come in and they're gonna fucking get it.

George 20:26

Well they know a pattern, they see they see the road. Yeah, it's a lot of things. They see the road to go and get more. So I think that could work really well if you set it up like that.

Robby 20:32

Yeah, you would obviously you would have to have one, obviously you've got to be able to uh do it. That's the first thing. And the second thing is you need to be able to you gotta have the progression path. Like you gotta have have someone has has to have walked that path for you to be able to say, okay, cool, this will work. You know what I mean? Um all right. Do you like that question? Good one. Just a warm-up. These are so random. They're all somewhat business related, yeah, though, with some personal elements. So here's a personal one. Question two, we'll call it. Or yeah, I don't know. I'm going to randomly.

Personal Ethics And Firing Decisions

Robby 21:15

Would you sack someone?

George 21:17

Yes. Next.

Robby 21:20

Uh no. Would you sack a high performing employee if you found out they were cheating on their partner?

George 21:30

No. Ooh. I say that because I can't. How could I how could I see how it's leave these questions? Yeah, but how could I link it? How could I link it to perform? Like, I don't think from a work, a fair worker perspective, I could. Well, as in sack that unless it affected business operations, how could I do that? Do you know what I mean? It's what they do in their personal life is their own business. If it started to affect business and they started to go downhill because I was sad and depressed.

Robby 22:00

Okay, so someone's smoking crack on the weekends, but they come in Monday morning sharp as a whistle.

George 22:04

Again, I can't control what people do on the weekend.

Robby 22:06

So you'd be okay with your employees smoking crack on the weekends?

George 22:10

I mean, is it good quality? Like I don't I don't know. I again I can't stop anyone from doing that. So if I knew it, if it started to affect I could only enforce if it affected them at work.

Robby 22:25

Is that because that's what you think you your limitations are in the current environment?

George 22:30

Potentially, potentially. I mean, would I hire them knowing that? No. Yeah. So that's another question. Yeah, I know. I know. So do I think they should be doing it? No. I don't like I don't in in in um what's it called, endorse any of those actions.

Robby 22:46

Yeah.

George 22:46

But you But it's also like I've got to be mindful that it's a tough question. Yeah, it is. I mean even from a cult, you could argue, well, culturally that doesn't fit in with your business. Yeah, it's like this person is doing that at home. Are they doing that at work? Are they doing that with studies? Are they doing it with clients? So that's the broader question that gets raised, in which case I would then start to um pay attention. Because I've had stuff like that happen in the sense of not on that scale. I'm talking about once I start to pay attention, then I see the pattern within the business from individuals. So if I see that someone's rocking up late for whatever reason, then I'm like, okay, cool, then I start looking at other things, I start looking at other things, and all of a sudden like, okay, cool, you gotta go. That happened with a previous GM that used to work with me. He had stuff going on outside of the business world, which started, I believe, to affect him here and his performance, and he started making mistakes, started costing money, and it ended up getting to a time, a position where I had to go, cool, this has to end. Um, nothing to do with him personally, like I like the guy, and but it came, it got to the point where I was like, this can't operate anymore. So I think those things it'd be very, very difficult for a person to switch off and get whiteline fever on Monday morning and switch off at Friday night and go do whatever he's going to do outside of business hours. So I think it eventually would transpond into business and it would probably lead to get them getting oust.

Robby 24:11

Yeah, it's it's a um it's a tough question.

George 24:15

I think it's a no initially, but I think it would become a yes. I think I just don't see how people are not that emotionally strong to just be a complete beast at at work and then play up outside. It would blend in eventually in some aspects. As in, there would be like a leakage. I think so. It would have to. It would have to. Like, as I said, it might not mean that they're going to cheat with s someone in the office, but maybe it means that they're unethical in the way they handle a client or money or something. So do you start to think I would I would have to say that it isn't loyal. Yes, I would have to think that. As in, I would, I know myself, I would think those things, yes. So if I found that out about these people that are doing these things, whether it's recreational stuff outside of work, whether it's being whether they're not loyal, whether it's I don't know, unethical stuff outside of business, I would then look at that and go, okay, you are that person. You're not a different person outside of business and inside business. Like I always say, I don't believe in work-life balance. I don't think it exists. It's a work-life priority, it's a blend. You're always, you don't transform into a magical person outside of business hours. You always uh I am always George. So it's just what version am I going to be bringing in at work? And eventually that's going to seep in. So I think initially when I would find out, there's not much you can do, but then it would start to raise the question and I would start to pay attention to certain things. And then I think eventually it would affect them. What about yourself?

Robby 25:45

If um what about myself? Yeah. For that question. It would definitely uh it would definitely I don't know if I would look past it. Yeah. Absolutely. You know what I mean? Like I think you would just be like, huh. Like, if you can do that comfortably, what else are you doing? You know what I mean? Um Yeah, I think it yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's a it's a very, very tough question because there's also the lack of context. Like, you know, what sort of relationship are you in? Do you have kids? Are you married with kids? That's a very different relationship to a guy who's just um dating someone he's known for a couple of months. Um it doesn't make it right, um, but yeah, you definitely kind of yeah, I don't know. I I feel like I wouldn't be able to trust that person after that. Because I would just be like, huh. Like I would assume you care about that more than you care about work.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah, exactly.

Robby 26:58

Yeah, so if you're willing to do that in that area of your life, you don't give a shit about this. Like the second something comes up, you're gonna kind of jump ship or you know, screw us over or whatever it is. Um and I think it would really it would really raise raise a flag with me there. Um at what point do you think it's not okay to ask someone that? Ask them which. Like at what point this is where and this is where you know no one teaches you how to do this as a as an employer. But it's like, okay, cool, you start to notice something initially. Like if you notice it, you're not gonna be like, hey, hey, hey, you cheating on your missus, come here. You're not, yeah, you're just not, right? Like initially you might see something, you might be like, hmm. And then you might say, okay, cool, like whatever. Fucking, I don't give a fuck. 1300 fires over here, I'm just gonna look at the fire. And then eventually it might, you know, turn into like something other people start to notice. And then it's like, okay, cool. At what point do you say, hey, come into my office? Like, what's what has to happen to that point? And at what point are you crossing a line where it's like, hey, who the fuck are you to tell me what I should be doing in my private life?

George 28:11

Oh, it would never be that though. It would never get it can never be that conversation. But so you wouldn't there would be no at no point would No, no, no. It could never go to that path, it could never lead into that conversation. What you're doing, you're right. I've got no say in what you're doing. But so you would never pull them into your office? I would pull them into my office because it would be affecting business operations and say, listen, I've noticed that these things are happening and it's affecting your work. What you've got going on in your personal life is your business. But whilst you're in these four walls, it's my business. So that's how I would approach it. You cannot you can't get rid of them or or put anything on them because of what they do outside of the hours of their operation in this in the business. But I would definitely pull them up and say, Hey, you are a liability, and I've got to let you go. Yeah, it's um I mean I've had the conversation, it's not pleasant. It's not a pleasant one. Like I've done, I've done it before. What pulled someone up because they were a liability? Yeah, absolutely. That scenario. Not from a cheating perspective, but from they had other stuff going on that affected their business, that affected their role in the business. And I had to pull them up and say, listen, this isn't a working relationship anymore that's beneficial for me or for you. And as it turned out, they went elsewhere and they were better off and good on them, and that's fine. I'm happy for them. But at the end of the day, whilst they were here and going through that stuff, it was detrimental. Like it cost us money, it cost us time, it cost us reputation. So I was like, Well, that's gotta end, that's gotta go.

Robby 29:37

Do you um if someone on your team is clearly in a bad way and you see it and you ask them, and they say, I'm good, what do you do?

George 29:52

I would yeah, I would definitely approach, and I have in the past, yeah.

Robby 29:55

But like I'd say what's going on, I'm just saying I'm working for you. What do you mean? Let's just say I'm working for you, and you come and you say those things, and I say, I'm good, man.

George 30:02

You're good. And you know, well, if I know, if I knowing how good, like you tend to get quite I do anyway. I get close with my employees. Like I'm I know them on a personal level, aside from the fact that I'm related to 90% of them. But even yourself now, I I see you almost every day. I see you probably more than I see my missus. Right. So I would I've got a level of understanding. You say, no, I'm good. Like even you, man, you've seen me times you're like, hey, you're right. Like, I know you're not because you're not yourself. You're you're stressed, you're this, you're that. Like, what's going on? And you just know and you can pull me up on it. And uh, there's been times where it's been like, oh man, I'm I'm glad you noticed, or I'm glad you said something. So I think it's just you've got to have that emotional intelligence and just be a little bit more persistent and go, no, no, I know you're not right, dude. I know you're not. You can tell me you're not, you can lie, you can bullshit a bullshit. You can't bullshit a bullshitter. Like, I know you're not all right. Tell me what's up. Or you know what? Take the week off. No, I don't need to. I want you. I'm actually not asking. You have to take the week off. I've got you this way, whatever. But you have to have that emotional intelligence, let's call it, to be able to pull someone up on that.

Robby 31:06

Yeah, and and and genuinely care. It's empathy.

George 31:10

Like, yeah, you've got to care about them because if you don't give a fuck, you're never gonna do that. Let's be honest. If you don't care about the person, you're like, hey, work to the bone, I don't care, as long as you're not costing me money or whatever it is, you're not gonna care. But if you you've got to have genuine empathy for them. Um okay. Interesting, interesting.

Robby 31:25

Good questions, huh? Yeah. Uh all right, next question. Would

Nice Clients Versus On-Time Payment

Robby 31:33

you rather work for a good bloke who pays late or work for a prick who pays on time?

George 31:41

Work for a prick that pays on time. Seriously? Yeah, yeah, I can handle prick. I can handle I always always say, like, most 99% of my problems are always it's tends to be cash flow. I can handle problems. I can handle issues, I can handle bad people. Just pay on time, dude. Pay on time, pay in full. I can handle everything else. Because the but the good blokes, like, uh I've got this now. Like, the nicest people on the fucking planet, the nicest person, all right? Like you wouldn't, you know, and and they they there's some money that's owed, and they're just like, I'm sorry, you know. Well, I'm like, okay, that's cool. Like, give me a hug. Like, it's okay. But it it still puts you in a difficult position from a business point of view. So I at least I know and can plan for that person. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna go out and do more work for them. Maybe in the future I decide, hey, he's far too much effort than is what then than what I want to take on as a client. Or if he's giving you a million bucks a month, but he's just an asshole, all right. Let's go. I can deal with arseholes. But I would do that. Yeah, I honestly would. I'd rather him swear at me when he pays me. Go for it, man. That's cool. I'm happy for that.

Robby 32:55

Why do you think why do you think um I guess cash flow problems must be a big yeah?

George 33:01

I think in our industry as well, it's it's um rampant. So just paying on time is very important from all avenues, you know. We've been guilty of it too, and we're trying to we we where we've had been delayed on some payments, but we've always made it and always tried to do the right thing by everyone. So it's um yeah, it's just gotta a thing you've got to manage.

Robby 33:20

Um how long how long does the good bloke uh category remain on the person who pays late? Like how long do they have to do it? Because it's actually like, you know what, man, like you're a nice guy, but seriously, like you're difficult, yeah, yeah.

George 33:36

Exactly, because then they become the difficult one. Yeah, so it's it's gonna get to the they're gonna still be difficult when they're paid late. Still doesn't make it easy. So at least I know from the day one that okay, on the first of each month, I've got money in the bank. He's gonna swear at me, he's gonna make us work for it, but that's cool. That's that's what we're here to do. We're here to work, so that's fine.

Robby 33:55

Pay your bills on time, pay your bills on time, everyone. Yeah, that's it. Pay your bills on time. Uh, have you ever been the person to not pay the bills on time?

George 34:03

Yeah, I have two, yeah. Yeah, I don't like it. I hate it. I hate two things in business. I hate being owed money and I hate owing money. You know, it's it's the it's a bad feeling. Like it's not, it is business.

Robby 34:13

Business is the is the act of being owed money and owing people money.

George 34:17

I know. Okay.

Robby 34:18

And then keeping hopefully, hopefully, having something having something left over, yeah.

George 34:21

Yeah, look, it's not great. It it's it just does sometimes you've got to make those difficult decisions to hold back on certain things, even from personal. Like I it's not like I'll then go out, okay. I'll never do this. I'll never not pay someone that then you see me at Porsche on the weekend up buying a brand new car.

Robby 34:38

Yeah, and it's like I'll never fucking do that.

George 34:40

Yeah, I I would be so oh man, I'd feel like the shittest person doing shit like that. I couldn't do it, you know.

Robby 34:49

You're gonna people do that. American people are withholding cash from people and then going and spending friv frivolously like that, you know.

George 34:56

I think those the people that do that are the people that never intend to pay anyway.

Robby 35:00

Oh yeah.

George 35:01

Do you know what I mean? So yes, I do think that that's the case sometimes.

Robby 35:06

Um okay.

Side Cash Jobs And Saturday Expectations

Robby 35:10

Next question Do you support your team doing cash jobs on the weekends if they're doing the same trade? Whether it's your sub-vis or not, oh actually, I guess your team is you like your your carpenters. Um not touching your clients, though. Yes. So they're not touching your clients, but they're working and doing cash jobs on the weekend.

George 35:32

Yep. Go for it. Why? Well, I'm happy for you to win. And if I if you're not working for me, then absolutely you can. So the only time I would say it it would become an issue, okay, and this is a perfect example because I'm going through it right now. So I don't enforce Saturday weekend, uh Saturday work. Contractually, like employee contracts, you are engaged to work Saturdays when required. So we're coming into the completion of a big job at the moment, and we've got weeks left, like literally two weeks' time, we're handing over this build. And it's huge. Oh, it's there's people everywhere. I was there today just walking around, just making sure I pick up anything that they've missed, whatever it might be. So there's lots and lots and lots of work. Yeah, the final touches. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's probably a good time because there's bodies everywhere and it's uh it's good to do. Now, yeah, yeah, maybe this week. Talk after this, yeah, good. Lock it in. Simon, Simon can take that one over. Um, so what was that? What was I? Oh, yeah. So I um I've told the team that hey, Saturdays are on the on the books now. Yeah, every single person is expected to be working Saturdays to get this job finished. There's no, oh, you know, I'm not I I'm I'm choosing not to come in. No, no, you don't get that option. You are working Saturday. Don't book them in, don't book anything in. You are expected to be on site working. That's it. So uh on that instance, if you had a if you're like, oh, I've got to go build a Pagola on the weekend, I'm like, no, you don't. You're working for me. Push it back three weeks. I don't care. You can do it, just push it back for when you're not required at work. This is a requirement of you to be at work. So I think you've got to set that parameter nice and early. I do it at contract signing, saying, hey, there's not requirements of Saturdays, but we will, and when say I do need someone to work on a Saturday, I give them notice. So it's not like I'm like Friday night at 4 30 and say, Hey, I need you to work tomorrow and I expect you to be there. It's no, I'll on Tuesday say, Hey, it's a good chance you're gonna be working on Saturday because we've got to finish this, this, this, and this.

Robby 37:34

So, what happens if um if an employee has something booked?

George 37:40

Then unbook it. If you want to go do that, go do it. Go work for yourself. Go out and do it. No, what if they got something else booked? What if they're like oh like a birthday? Yeah, like Yeah, I'm I'm not an asshole. Yeah, like do it, go for it. But if in for this instance where this job's done, if you've got a birthday booked, tell them you're coming late. You'll be there after work. You're not going. Oh, so you're not letting me No, absolutely.

Robby 38:04

Dude, you just contradict me.

George 38:05

Sorry, sorry, if I mean like if it's not an urgent thing that needs to be done, like if it's if it's like if it's a grandmother's birthday, hey, she'll hopefully she gets to the next one. Oh, dude. Yeah, mate. I don't believe you. Hey, I've tapped it. I don't tap it. You're gonna believe you. So it needs to happen. If it's not me, then someone else has to cover for you. Like, get because our projects are a team thing, it's not like one individual. Yeah, so cool. If you can't be there, then this person has to be there. Sort it out. But someone's here on Saturday, and if someone's going to cover for you, they'll cover for you next time. You know, whatever it's gonna be. And so it's a team effort, but the expectation is at that stage of the job in the last month, two months, it is expected Saturdays, overtime, whatever has to happen to get that job built has to happen. And if you don't like it, there's the door.

Robby 38:52

Why why do you have that? And so you uh I I know this, but many people wouldn't. Your Saturdays are uh counted into the salary.

George 39:02

Correct. Yeah. So you don't pay overtime. I do with some employees, sorry. So my wage-based employee. So the way I see that is if you're a carpenter, my carpenters, uh labourers or apprentices, I pay them on an hourly rate. Management, I pay on an annual salary. So your salary is GMs, supervisors, supervisors, CAs, CAs as well. I'll I'll consider them management. Um even my PA, I would consider management. So I pay them on that basis. You are on an annual salary, you get paid well above award. So you're already compensated for any overtime that you do throughout the year.

Robby 39:39

Yeah, but do you then uh do you roll it over? In what regards? Like workers, how do they get an out of time or something?

George 39:46

Some time. I'll do that in good faith. I don't have to.

Robby 39:49

It's not in the contract.

George 39:50

No, well, no, but I would do yeah, it's not in the contract, correct. But I would do that if someone's putting in a great big effort. Like I remember one of my supervisors, Nick, he did a we were finishing some apartments in Brighton. Uh he killed it. Like he worked Saturdays, he was working until five, six o'clock each night. I'm like, hey, like he we wanted to take a few days off camp. He said, Yeah, just go, dude. Like, it's on me, don't stress. So he took two, three days off, and I was like, happy to give it to him, man, because he worked really hard, he delivered the job, and he did he did an excellent, delivered an excellent product.

Robby 40:19

Do you think people do you think um I guess it's do you think people prefer to have the thing written in like a if I do this, I do this, not uh, well, if George wants to reward me for this, then I'll get that. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to do it based on how you feel about the situation. Uh, they'd rather do it based on a written contractual agreement. Like if I work Saturdays, I get paid X, or if I work Saturdays, I get, you know, uh RDO in the bank or whatever it is.

George 40:52

I mean, yeah, you can negotiate it like that. I've got no issues like that. But then I would also say, cool, if you're gonna work Saturdays, well, this is your wage now. If you're gonna get paid extra for Saturdays or overtime, then this is your base wage. So that might be reflective of that overtime. So maybe you'll get a reduced salary, but you get OT. You get a reduced base wage, but now you get overtime. Do you allow for people to negotiate their salaries? I'm happy to have a negotiation with people before they're employed, yeah. As in, whilst we're what if I'm looking to employ someone, yeah, I mean most people would. Especially if it's a senior position, I'd kind of half expect you to. Yeah, like well, you're here to how you if you can't negotiate your own wage, how are you gonna negotiate a multi-million dollar contract for me or subcontract agreements or anything like that?

Robby 41:38

Okay, because then that's um I guess at what point do you turn around and say, you know what, uh, this is because we we got into this topic from the doing their own work, like doing cachis, right? And if the ch uh you've got a carpenter, they're doing a cashie, and they're like, hey, I've got you know, I'm doing this um building a frame, whatever it is, some uh like a big job. Yeah, yeah, a pagola. Pagolas are massive. You gotta be you gotta be very qualified carpenter to build a pagola. That's it. Um and have all the permits in place. All the permits, always. I frame them. I put it up on the wall. Uh I haven't built a pagola if you're never if you work for the council. What was I gonna say? Oh yeah, the cashies. So at what point do you turn around and say, hey, because like you flip the script. I'm the carpenter, you're the boss. And I'm like, all right, cool, man. Like I like working for for Pascal. I work Monday to Friday. Um I also do cashies every weekend. Yeah, I mean cashies every weekend. I've got so many cashies every Saturday, Sunday. I'm doing cashis, Saturday, Sunday, Saturday, Sunday, Saturday, Sunday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah, and I just work seven days non-stop. I'm like a workhorse, make them bank. Yeah, barely get them by a butt. And then it's like, cool, you you hear, hey, it's busy. I need you to work Saturday. And I say, okay, cool.

George 43:00

I'll discuss this. If we had say it's at the say before he gets a job, he says, Listen, George, I do every Saturday, Sunday, I do cashies. I work seven days. So I go, I'm actually not available to do any Saturday work. If I was okay with, I said, Yeah, you know what? Hey, I'm happy to have you Monday to Friday. Then I know my expectation. I know that I can't re rely on Joshua working on a Saturday. He's just out of the question. So I just won't. It's I can now plan for that. I say, cool, hey, Joshua's not working, never work Saturday, never work. If it comes, if it comes in and said, I can ask, I say, Hey, by any chance, do you not have a cashew this week? Or you know, it's like, actually, yeah, I'm free. Do you want me to work? So yeah, cool, come work. Um, so I would work in with him. I'm not a dick. I just I would purely base it on merit. And if he's had that conversation with me, but if we've agreed before that you work Saturdays and now you're booking in cachies on Saturdays and you can't work for me, but I've employed you to work Saturdays when I need you to work, then you're not fulfilling your obligations to me and what we agreed on. And If you want to change that agreement, well, if I think that's okay for me to change, then I say, Yeah, cool, let's do it. If not, then go out and do cashes every day and start your own business. So as long as it fulfills the needs of the business, I'm happy.

Robby 44:14

I think I think you gotta have that in written.

George 44:18

Absolutely. So many people don't have contracts.

Robby 44:20

No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about contracts. I'm talking about you don't have the number of Saturdays written down. If you say I've got you for 12 Saturdays a year, maybe you do that.

George 44:30

Yeah, maybe you say so. Yeah.

Robby 44:33

I've got for you for a maximum of 12, meaning I can call on you 12 times and you need to fulfill. Or because like yours, like who's let's just say you choose tomorrow to be like, fuck it, I'm just gonna I'm gonna start smashing the boys every Saturday. They can't say no, can they? Without with keeping their job.

George 44:52

Yeah, technically. But they're so they're getting remunerated for it already. Hey, so I'm already paying them over.

Robby 44:58

Yeah, but it doesn't that doesn't they get paid the same whether they work it or not. So it doesn't they don't see it that way.

George 45:04

Yes, I know, yes, I know what you're saying. Yeah, but to them it's I don't I wouldn't do that though anyway. I know, I know and I'd I've never been like that in the 10 years.

Robby 45:10

But if George gets angry tomorrow, yeah, I'm angry now.

George 45:13

I'm angry now. Everyone's working. But do you get understanding? Like I said, I do, I do. But I know that I wouldn't put that parameter in place. Yeah, but they don't. No, they do because it's been like that for the last 10 years. No, no, but a lot of them have been with me for a long time. But they don't know. But I say that at the interview stage too. I say, listen, there's the expectation of Saturdays, but I don't get you to work every Saturday. You work Saturday when it's asked and if you're available, you work Saturdays at peak peak periods of projects. That's when we would expect you to do. Other than that, you know, I and I might say you've got half a dozen, a dozen in a year. Let me let me ask you. So I would happily say, you know, even if I said, put it this way, if I said to the team, you all owe me 12 Saturdays, they would still be ahead because I wouldn't get them to work 12 Saturdays in a year.

Robby 45:56

Yeah, yeah. I I I understand, but all right, let me flip the script. If you paid overtime, yeah, how much overtime would you be paying?

George 46:06

What uh is in hours?

Robby 46:07

No, not yeah, not legally. Like, even if it's like, what's it gonna cost you? An extra five grand a year?

George 46:11

Oh, yeah, whatever it is. It's fuck all.

Robby 46:13

Like yes, maybe, maybe 20 grand across your whole team max. Isn't that worth what you think they would get out of it? And how much easier I'm gonna this is Pascal team are gonna mutiny. There's gonna be mutiny. They're gonna they're gonna uh I'm gonna become their emperor. They're lucky to have a job at the moment, so might get rid of them all after this. The um but don't you think it would be easier for you to then convince them to work Saturdays?

George 46:41

No, I don't have difficulties now. I don't have any difficulties with my team uh getting them to work a Saturday. They all work it because they want their job, they've got ownership on their jobs and they want their job to be good.

Robby 46:52

Yeah, but so do you think if I asked them would they like to be remunerated for Saturdays, what do you think they would say?

George 46:58

Always, yes. Yeah, anyone would. If I saw I get more money, yeah, absolutely.

Robby 47:02

But how much more do you think like do you think the cost to the business versus the outcome of the employees? Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. No, no, no, no, 100%. It's a little cost for massive gain. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, it could very well be. Um everyone's everyone's gonna get fired after this. Everyone, they're all fired. They're all fired. You can't ask for Saturdays, you don't have a job. Um, okay.

George 47:28

I feel like I'm answering a lot of these questions. Have you got an answer uh response to that?

Robby 47:32

Well, I can't even remember what the question was. What was the initial question? Cashies on the side.

George 47:36

Oh, cashies on the side. So do you care if your videographer was doing um videos on a weekend for other businesses? Nope.

Robby 47:43

I got two rules. Yeah. If you're taking stuff off our plate, we're gonna have a conversation about that.

George 47:48

Yeah, yeah. You can't take our clients.

Robby 47:50

Yeah, and I also say to the team, if you have a job and you want to do it but you don't want to do it alone, and you bring it into the company, we'll pay you. Oh, of course, yeah, remuneration. Absolutely. We'll pay you for crossing it because um, you know, so that way you still get a bit of extra cash, you can still do it in your working hours, are you gonna get paid to do it anyway, you're gonna get paid for bringing it in, and you know, it might be a job you're really interested in doing or whatever it might be, as long as it's a decent job. Yeah, like I'm not gonna go do a shitty job and you bring it in and we're gonna pay you for the shitty job and it's gonna create headaches and fuck the whole team up. Um, yeah, so from that side, yeah, I got no issues. I also tell, like, dude, I think the best uh our best team members are the ones who can problem solve and work things out. And I believe putting yourself in a position where you do caches and stuff, you're forced to work shit out. Yeah, you know what I mean? It puts you in a position where like you have to work out how to solve this, and I believe you end up with a better team member. Do you know what I mean? Um, and everyone's gonna leave. Eventually, yeah. Yeah, everyone, me included. Yeah, like it's like one day you're gonna check out whether you resign or you die or you sell the business or whatever it is, like Monday you're gonna check out, they're gonna check out too. Um and my whole rule with everyone we employ, I always say I say this during the interview. I say, hey, like we've got it's a two-way street. You come into the business, we want you to leave the business better than you found it, and we want to leave you better than we found you. Yeah, do you know what I mean? That's great. Whereas like we are better off, we are both better off for this relationship. Yeah, you came in, you helped us, made it better. We also helped you grow, learned some skills, you know what I mean? Made you better, you had some fun, and that's it. And it's at some point it comes to an end, and whenever that end comes, we'll we'll you know, shake hands, hug it out, and go separate ways. Yeah, that's it. Um, yeah, so I've got I've got no no issue with that at all. When it would be an issue is if it started impacting, you know, oh they're not coming in on Monday mornings because they're working Sunday nights, or you know, they're working all night during the week and they're always tired of work or they're late. Then we have that conversation. Um, okay. What else have we got here? We

After-Hours Calls And Honest References

Robby 50:12

ask that. Is it fair to expect someone to answer their phone after knocking off?

George 50:20

Depends on their role, but now it's a legal requirement. Like it's not re sorry, uh what's a c what's the law? Right to refuse or something like that? Right to disconnect, I think it's called. They don't have to answer after hours. Is that that's in place? We spoke about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I guess it depends on the role, how senior it is and and what they're doing. You can call. If they answer, great, if not, sort it out in the morning. Yeah, I I think um within reason. Yeah, I mean, if it's a once-off, like if you're calling every single day at you know 6 30 p.m. and you're busting boards and it's like, hey, what's this? Why I haven't done this? How come you haven't done that? Like there, I don't think that's the right thing to do.

Robby 51:05

No, so so we do most of our comms on uh Slack. And like I will drop I tell the team, I say if I message you after else on Slack, don't reply. I'm messaging you so that I don't forget. Like I'll drop a message in Slack. Like, you don't have to don't respond to anything. I don't have no expectation you respond. If I need you, I will call your phone. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Or if they're remote, I'll tell like I'll WhatsApp you. Like I if I need you, there's like something's wrong, I'll WhatsApp you. Yeah, like that's how we'll get a hold of you. But if it's on Slack, it's outside of work hours, don't don't stress. I'll message you on a Saturday just because I'm doing some stuff and I notice something and I don't want to have to wait and remember and then forget. And it's like I'm just gonna message you now, and you come in and you say it Monday morning. Yeah, cool, that's all good. Um Yeah, and I I would say our team's pretty good like that. Most of them tend to reply anyway. Like I'll message you on Slack and they'll reply. I'm like, you don't have to reply. I'm just messaging you now because you know, in two days' time I'm not gonna remember sending this message. Um okay, would you give an honest reference to someone you sacked?

George 52:10

Uh as in a positive or a negative one? An honest one. An honest one, yeah. That was the question.

Robby 52:15

Uh yeah, I would. So hold on, but what does that mean? So, like, for example, let's just say you and I don't know each other. And let's you hire someone. We'll call them uh let's call him Philip. Philip. Yeah. And you hire Philip, and he comes, he works for you, and he is the lowest employee. Late, messy, no idea what's happening, causes chaos. And you know, three weeks in, maybe a month in, maybe, maybe even he he makes it six months because you were so busy at the start that you didn't pay attention, and then you worked out, you know. After a few months, you're like, all right, this is not gonna last, and then you phased him out. Following everything Fairwork expects you to do, of course. Yeah, and then uh and then you know, a few weeks later, Philip calls you and he says, George, George, it's Philip.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

I deleted you from the club. Didn't I block you?

Robby 53:15

Yeah, um George, it's Philip, and um I need I need to uh put a couple of references down for my work history. Is it okay if I put you? And you say, uh sure. And you think I'm fucking this guy's an idiot. Yeah. Anyway, so you people.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

I'm laughing at Philip. What an idiot. What a dumb shit. What are you doing, Philip?

Robby 53:42

Anyway, so he puts you down, and then uh, you know, a couple of days later, you're there, your phone rings, you say hello, George speaking, and I say, Hey George, Robbie from Legacy Media. Uh, you got a minute, I just want to have a quick chat to you about someone who's placed you down as a reference. Uh you know Philip.

George 53:58

How are you, Matt? You well, I'm good.

Robby 53:59

You've been on at the moment. Yeah, heaps. We're we're hiring heaps. Yeah, good. Uh and uh videographer and marketing guy. Um, and we've just had Philip, his seems great, and he said he worked with you for six months. Um tell me a little bit about you know um uh he's he's spoken really highly of himself, George.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Of himself, yeah.

Robby 54:21

Of course he did, come in all gunned. Of course he did.

George 54:24

He did the same with me. Um what would you do? I well, I would do this. If it was a bad so did I have a negative experience, obviously, because I've fired Phil. Uh when Phil calls me up to say, Hey, can you give me a reference? I'd say Phil.

Robby 54:38

Hold on, hold on. Let's scrap that bit. Let's say he didn't mean with that.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

He just he just if he didn't call me because I've said Phil, come on, mate. Yeah, Phil, come on, stop it, stop it.

Robby 54:46

I already fired you.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

He didn't call me.

George 54:50

Okay, didn't call me a reference and then Robbie calls me up and says, Hey, Phil wants a job, bought your reference. Tell you to run like you're on fire. Would you really? Yeah, 100%. Oh, I wouldn't even hesitate. And the reason is this I know what it takes to run a business. You know what it takes to run a business. I have empathy for you as a business owner before you've even before I've even spoken to you. I know how hard it is to win in business. And let's pretend you weren't legacy media. Let's pretend you were another builder. Yeah, my competition. Okay, you're my competition. And I know by you hiring Phil, I'm gonna, I'm gonna win. I mean, hey dude, dude, listen to me and listen to me well. Like, run like you're on fire. Do not hire this kid. He's no good. I'll tell you why. This, this, this, this, this. Okay, just ruin Phil's life. I would ruin Phil's life. I no, I didn't ruin Phil's life. Little Phil ruined it himself. Little Phil. Little Phil's gonna grow up. He's gonna he's gonna learn the hard way. No, it's like if he's done the wrong thing by me, then I'd say, I'd just be honest. I'd say, listen, I'm gonna tell you the truth. This is why I got rid of him. I don't know if he's grown or if he's changed in the meantime. Maybe he's become a different person. I'm not too sure. It's been six months since he's spoken to me. But the reasons I let him go were for XYZ. And would I hire him again? No, I personally wouldn't. And based off assuming he is exactly the same as what he was when he left me, I can't refer him as someone that I would put at my business or recommend for you to do. So I would be openly honest because you know what, mate, just because what you're hungry, you want you need a job and you've put me down, like you've done the wrong thing by me enough to for me to fire you, and now you want me to go and vouch for you? That's my name and reputation. So what if this guy puts him on and says, that George guy who trains all these builders, who does all this stuff and and goes out there to be a beacon of everyone, vouch for this guy and said he was good. So then I'm lying to the business owner instead of being honest to him.

Robby 56:40

And then six weeks later, you walk outside your office and Phil's there on the side of the road. Homeless. Homeless. Yeah, and couldn't, yeah, needed, needed to pay for his rent, couldn't had one last swing at a job, but they wouldn't take him on without speaking to his last employer, and then you now you're responsible for Phil dying on the street.

George 57:00

I'm not here's the thing I don't I don't feel anything for him. I'd walk over him.

Robby 57:06

I'd I'd I would step on him.

George 57:10

It's funny, it's like you know, there was this study done about people who have gone through difficulties. Okay, and the funny thing about that study was they didn't actually feel empathy for people that are going through the same thing, right? Yeah, so does they actually feel like hey, like I toughen, toughen the fuck up. Like I've done this. This isn't get pick yourself up, go again. You think that's difficult? They end up having a chip on their shoulder for that person.

Robby 57:37

Yeah, I would say people go the other way as well, and they can completely empathize with someone who they relate to.

George 57:43

Yes, yes, yes, I yeah, and there is that aspect of it too. But you know what? I I wouldn't I wouldn't feel I'd be sad. I'd be like, oh that's sad that you're there, man, but it's nothing to do with me. You put yourself there. I was just the stepping stone in in that journey. Take responsibility. I've got I've got huge levels of responsibility. That to me is someone who hasn't taken responsibility. It's funny, I went for a walk with a mate the other day and we walked past a homeless person sitting on the street. And it's like, could you ever see yourself there? I said, No, never. I could never see myself being in a position where I have to sit on the street like that. And it's like, first of all, I've got enough family and friends that I could call someone and sleep on a couch if I had to. Also, I've got no shame. I will pack bags at Coles if I need to. Do you know what I mean? Like, whatever I need to do, get myself back up. I'll go pack bags, I'll make my 32 bucks an hour, I'll go live in the outer western, eastern, southern suburbs in a one-bedroom apartment, whatever I have to do until I then got the next job. It's got a promotion and now I'm at a checkout chick, and then I'm a manager, and then I'm whatever it is. Checkout chick, yeah. Yeah, do they still exist? I don't even know. They're AI chicks now. Do they uh so uh whatever isn't that um isn't that a level of sexism?

Robby 58:51

You know, McDonald's, the boys work in the back and the girls work in the front. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that.

George 58:56

Yeah, so like if you're surely people boys work at the front, I've been certified.

Robby 58:59

Yeah, yeah, but like mainly, yeah. It's like if that's just you know, if you're one of the guys, you work at the back, you have to do the the cooking and the cleaning, and the girls tend to do the service. Yep.

George 59:09

Well, I mean, that's I'm I actually don't have a lot. I don't have an issue with that. Yeah, but who are you speaking to? No, but from the perspective of like girls, we so Jordan Peterson says this like women are more interested in people, men are more interested in things. Like that's the two core, like if there's a difference between men and women, that's it. So men being interested in things would be interested in the cooking and the cleaning and the hard yakka, whereas the women would be more inclined to be like, hi, how are you? Would you like fries with that? So it does make sense from that psychological perspective. Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree with it. Yeah, yeah. So I don't have an issue with that either.

Robby 59:46

Stoke the fire.

George 59:46

Yeah, just trying to raise us up.

Robby 59:48

Um, okay. This actually is a segue into the next question, which is great. And

Mental Health And Site Culture Today

Robby 59:54

it's this has the mental health push in the construction industry actually helped, or has it become a box we tick? And is the uh is the old site culture that is it something that used to kind of toughen blokes up? Like I said, so you think about all the jokes they play on apprentices? I've I've been, I don't want to say victim, but I've I've experienced yeah, I've experienced that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

Yeah.

Robby 1:00:24

Um and do you think that is a do you think do you think we're taking away from the thing that toughened people up, or do you think that was bullying that was just covered up?

George 1:00:41

I think that style of management is definitely fading. Yeah, and I think it's for the better. Yeah, which style is real authoritarian. So let's just go back to when you think of an old school builder or foreman or someone like that, real authoritarian, my way or the highway, yells, swears, yeah, but no, no, I think it's abusive. I don't think really front. Yeah. I guess. But I think that contributes to it too, right? Because the way I've heard my father's generation of apprentices, for example, being spoken to and how and what they went through when they were apprentices. So builders today, say a 45-year-old builder, 50-year-old builder of today when he was an apprentice. You just realize 45. That's up that page a little bit. But let's just say 25 years ago, 30 years ago, when someone was an apprentice, the the way that you taught an apprentice was to yell at them. You know, the way you taught an apprentice was throwing a hammer at them actually like saying, Hey, doing it.

Robby 1:01:40

You could argue, you know, that what you parented was you'd yell at them. But you'd smack them. They didn't know any better. Yeah, they didn't know any better. Teachers, yeah.

George 1:01:47

The teachers would smack kids. Hey, I used to go to Greek school, and our teacher used to hit us with a ruler. Did you go to Greek school? Yeah, I did. All the way to your 12. Really? Yeah. Bye. That's it. Are you that Greek? I'm even I've got a Greek flag on my chest and everything. Um that's pretty Greek, man. That's very Greek.

Robby 1:02:04

We should go to a Greek restaurant. We should go to a Greek dance. It's very fast dancing.

George 1:02:11

Yeah. Um what's it what do they call it, the round thing? Um, circle dancing. Ah, cult. It's a cult. There's there's different there's different types of dancing. Yeah, they hold hands in. Yeah, of course. I think you're just thinking of like um the uh you don't do it. Yeah, I do. I'm just trying to think of the name. Like the Zorba the Greek type dancing when you're going around a circle. Yeah, uh there's different styles and forms. But um back to what we're saying I do think that it's better. Yes, I think the way that the management style and and that has a had a positive influence on it. I don't think it's detrimental.

Robby 1:02:49

No, no, so I'm not talking about management styles though. I'm talking about have we softened up too much as a uh has the culture softened up too much for a I don't think so. For an industry that requires a level of of grit.

George 1:03:06

Yeah. Yeah, and toughness. No, I still think that toughness is there. I still think there's a level of I think that still exists. And I've seen it with many apprentices, with many uh young people in the industry. Like it there are days where it's it is hard work and you have to persevere through that hard work. And this is where even what I said earlier, where people don't feel sorry for like people don't, the more senior guys don't feel sorry for apprentices. Why? Because they've done all that before. Hey, I've had to carry bricks from the ground floor all the way to the third floor. All right, get cracking, like get moving. You're young, you're fit, get moving, right? You I know this will take you all day. You're gonna be tired. You might even get a few cuts. Here's some band-aids. All right, but this is the job. You have to do the job. If you can't manage today, you won't ever be able to manage it in 10 years' time. It's only going to get harder. So today is the test. So there is that level of that still exists now. I don't think it's I don't think that that's a bad thing. I think that does build some resilience and some toughness in them.

Robby 1:04:07

Yeah, but do you think it has um do you think it's so do you think people are just as tough as they always were?

George 1:04:15

Or do you think they're No, I feel uh and look, this is partly the reason we're experiencing a shortage in the industry as well. Because people don't want to be working that hard anymore. And they don't need to. The internet was is an amazing thing. AI now, it's an amazing thing. It's made it so that a lot of people don't have to go out and work laborist jobs anymore. They can make money on the internet, they can make money using a computer these days as opposed to being on site and laboring away. So we are getting a shortage of that for sure. That is definitely coming through. And the older guys are retiring and the new ones replacing them are not in the quantities that they need to be.

Robby 1:04:57

Yeah, but what's that? How does that do you think that's because of this?

George 1:05:03

I think, yeah, that I think the nature of the work, construction can be hard. There, like, don't get me wrong, there are days where it's not hard. There are days where you just work a good day and you do stuff. But there are days on site for site guys that I've I've seen, I've done it myself. I've seen some people work really hard yakker days. Like pouring concrete is very rarely an easy day. You know, pouring concrete's a laborish job. You've got to move a lot, you've got to bend over a lot of it.

Robby 1:05:30

As a site supervisor, as a concretor?

George 1:05:32

As a concreter, like the person doing the do creating something like doing the do, dude. Yeah, carpentry can be difficult as well. You're constantly, you'd be walking as a trader, you'd be walking 20,000 steps a day, carrying materials, brick laying. That's a dying trade. Back when I first started my construction company, we're placing bricks for 90 cents a brick is what we would be paying. Um, brick is to lay bricks. Now to do it, it's like three bucks, two dollars and fifty to three dollars a brick, because it's a dying trade. People are not doing that. Job anymore. Yeah, but so yeah. I I guess is it uh is it so I still feel that the mental toughness thing is there, like there's still a level of grit that they need to have. It's not as even though it's more I think where it's changed from a mental health perspective is you're just not hurling abuse at those people anymore. But there is still, hey, toughen up, mate. You've got to do this. Oh, my hands hurt. Well, they're gonna hurt all week, yes. Like, what do you want me to do? If you don't want it, go become a florist. So there will be that level of it for sure. And I think the banter is cultural more than anything. Same way you'd have panter at a footy club about something. Do you know what I mean? Like there's that that's a cultural thing, and it's that would just change over time, I dare say.

Robby 1:06:48

Yeah, but it it's definitely got a a negative a negative light. Like you can't do people are you know, I guess held some more accountability if you pick on an apprentice. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For example. For sure. Um Do you think that's No, I don't have I don't I think that's good.

George 1:07:12

I don't think it's a bad thing. Like you shouldn't, regardless of your age, you can joke around. It's like it's is it a joke if the other person doesn't find if the person victim doesn't find it funny? So then like that's how you've got to look at it. If they're not, if they're genuinely upset, if this is genuinely affecting them and they know they're gonna go to work tomorrow and everyone's gonna pick on their orange hair, do you know what I mean? And that's what they're that's what the butt of the joke is gonna be all day that he has orange hair, something he can't change, right? Then that would be detri-like I would as a business owner, if I found out my team were giving shit to a my apprentice because he had orange hair, and that's how that's was happening week on week on week, I'd be having firm words with the whole team. I'd be pulling him up on that. Hey, this isn't uh he's an apprentice, let's give him shit joke. This is harassment. This is not on, and if you don't like it, you you you are new, you're fired, right? I can fire all of you now for what you've just done here. I expect you all to write him an apology or go and see him and personally apologize. Otherwise, it is your job. So I would stick up in that instance for the apprentice, yes.

Robby 1:08:17

Yeah, I understand, but like so, and I believe that's what most people are doing. Oh, I think that's a good thing. I don't think it's bad at all. Let me finish. So sorry. The other side of this though is like because people are being like the obviously in every everything that happens is always like the people who do too much. Yeah what I mean. There's people who take things overboard.

George 1:08:38

Yeah, take it too far.

Robby 1:08:39

Yeah. And this would be the same thing. There would be the person who So then you'd have to pull that up. Yeah, there would be the person who meant it as a joke, and then there would be the person who kind of takes it too far, and you're like, hey man, like you're probably pushing this beyond its limits. And then therefore that person gets reprimanded, and then everyone else kind of pulls back and pulls back and pulls back. And I think do you think though, the constant pulling back, do you think that will have the opposite effect of eventually people will become too soft and then we'll face the other side? You know, and they've got that whole saying, like, I'm sure you've heard this you know, good um strong men make uh easy times, easy times makes weak men, weak men make hard times, hard times make yeah strong men. Yeah, yeah, and blah blah blah. And then the cycle goes around. Yeah, and the cycle goes around. And it's like, okay, like if that's the case, and then we're making weak men, weak people in general.

George 1:09:37

Weak people, yeah.

Robby 1:09:37

Yeah, and then the loop kind of feedback feeds back around, and this is probably gonna upset some people who maybe have had traumatic experiences. My I'll be honest, like, I was an apprentice, I went through it. Did they play jokes on me? Yeah, they did.

George 1:09:52

They would take my give you a left-handed screwdriver, get the left-handed screwdriver.

Robby 1:09:55

I was never that stupid. Like, I was like, you know what I mean? Like I always knew, but I saw like other apprentices go and ask for like a long wait.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Robby 1:10:03

They'd go to spare parts and they'd be like, hey, go to spare parts and get me a long weight. And the guys in spare parts are in on it. Yeah, and they'd they'd go to spare parts and they'd be like, Um, can I get a long weight? And then Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they'd just and then the apprentices just like you know, just waiting, waiting, waiting. It's like no idea. Um, but I've also had like, you know, my I just took it as um, and this was just maybe my perception, and then yeah, my perception of this was like they would take my hat, I would always wear a hat, and they would take my hat, and I I I didn't feel like I was being picked on. I felt like I was fitting in with the team. Yeah, and I was like the I was the first year apprentice, I was the kid among all the 22-year-olds, and I was like 18, you know, and they would take my hat and they'd throw it up on the exit sign, yeah, and I couldn't get it, dude. You know what I mean? And I'd have to go and negotiate with a tall guy to use the broom to yeah, it's like hey, come on. Felt like you know, and they'd and then they'd get a feeling I was like, all right. And then I would also though, I would get him back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:03

Yeah, yeah.

Robby 1:11:04

Like I wouldn't just lay there and sit down, oh man, like you know, and I I I feel like that shaped me as a person in a great way. Yeah, like I could I it built a level of resilience and it built a level of okay, like I send up myself too, yeah. But it never got to the point where I was like, oh man, like I'm being bullied here.

George 1:11:24

Yeah, and but that's a thing though, because it can get to that. Is it because I didn't feel that way, or is it because I I chose to because you could have interpreted it in a different way, you could have been like, they're picking on me because I'm Lebanese, right? And then you could have obviously that's what it was. Well, I mean, I'd clearly I'd be upset if they weren't doing it for those reasons. But do you know what I mean? Maybe you could have interpreted it that way, even though they may not have meant it that way. Okay, so or they maybe they did mean it that way. Maybe let's go get the Lebo kid. So I think there's it it it can swing either way. It can swing either way. I've got no issues with a joke, it's just when it becomes all right, are you gonna do this for six years? Like, are you gonna do this for the next four years of your apprenticeship? Your hat goes up there. Because then you're just gonna stop wearing hats. That's what I would have done. I would have probably stopped wearing a hat. Um, regardless. Regardless. I think uh I don't have an issue with jokes happening with a little banter with stuff like that. It's just when it does go too far. Yeah, I agree. You no one you don't know. Going back to what you're saying, I think the industry still it requires a level of grit, regardless. So I don't think you can be to I think you getting in construction being good, I think you're gonna have to have a level of toughness.

Robby 1:12:36

Yeah, but George, there's a there's this other side to it of uh I can't remember who the lady is, but she wrote a book, and I can't remember what the book was called, and I can't quote anything about it, so there's no point in maintaining this. But um there was a book written about how focusing on your problem is the problem. You know what I mean? It's like, and I'm not saying you shouldn't speak, that's not what I'm saying at all. But me personally, like I've never had an issue talking. I know lots of people do, and you know, if you feel somewhere, you should probably talk to someone. Me personally, I've never like I'll talk. I what are you gonna do? Judge me. Yeah, cool. Well I'll feel better. Like who cares? I've been I've seen therapists, psychologists. Um I've never had an issue speaking about something that I feel is not right, and maybe that's why I feel that way, and that's why I feel like, oh, like, but I think a lot of people would though. Yeah, I I I know a lot of people don't feel the way I feel about it. I know that. Like I'm very well for a long time I didn't, but I'm very well aware today um that that's the case. But you know, are we giving people it's the fine line between like, okay, at what point are you giving people an out with this, and are we going too far soft? And at what point are you like, hey, you've been a prick, and you know, people like you know, suicide rates are up or anything like that. And it's like, how do you draw the line between those two? Because you you hear stories all the time, and you know, if you're like mental health is real, it's a real thing, absolutely and you know, if you are suffering internally, like that's not a nice place to be. And if you are, you should probably go talk to someone. That's the truth. Um but are we making the problem worse? You know, are we giving people are we pointing people the light at the wrong thing and making people suffer more by bringing awareness to it? Or are we actually helping people by giving people something to speak about and saying, you know, don't suffer silently? You know, so were people are people better off now or were they just suffering silently previously?

George 1:14:48

I think they're suffering silently. You reckon? I think so. And they just and then as a result of that, they like single swim, but I think they became tougher as a result of it. But I think they were still suffering in the moment. Well, then is it a bad thing? Uh who's to yeah, I don't know. I know what you're saying, yeah. Pressure makes diamonds.

Robby 1:15:06

Yeah, like if the result of it came positive.

George 1:15:10

Look, I had a boss in at when I was at multiplex who was very much of the management style where he would like the way he would communicate is like, you know, what the fuck are you doing? If you're not going to do this, I'll just get someone else, mate. You just don't come into work on Monday. Like he was real abrupt, real direct, he was borderline abusive verbally, and he would just tell you how it was. Now, I still feel to this day that he toughened me up.

Robby 1:15:33

Yeah, but so okay, so George, someone has had that exact same experience and he's traumatized for it. Yeah, that's right.

George 1:15:39

They say, like when someone yells at him now, they're like three days off. If you ask me, had he had a different approach to me and managed me in a different way, would I still be better off? I still feel that I would. If he took me under his wing and showed me a different way and say, listen, you need to be tougher here, and I'm gonna show you how, because I'm not like that to my employees and they're guns. So I don't think that that management style is actually the best way to do it, or that's it. No, no, and I'm not saying it is, no, but in the sense of like this person was what you're saying, like that that you know, if you heard him speak to me, you would think he was picking on me. This is a real senior guy.

Robby 1:16:16

I've never once said authoritarian, you've always done it like that.

George 1:16:18

I know, but I'm just saying it's just the word I'm using. But this guy I would say he picked on me. I was the youngest person at the company at the time at Multiplex. Was he picking on you as a joke? No, no, no, no. He was genuinely angry, like white line fever type guy.

Robby 1:16:31

That's not the same.

George 1:16:32

Yeah, okay, but it was still in the way that was like I could have gone home and cried myself to sleep each night. And there was times where I was like, like I'd see his name come on my phone, and I'm like, oh God, what's he want? He's gonna yell at me again. Right. So there is still that element of me having to battle through that mental space and go, okay, well, it made me tougher working for him. But in the same token, if he had a completely different way of handling me at the time, I still think I would have been a really good builder, even though I still say today he shaped me who I am.

Robby 1:16:59

Yeah, but then you could argue, okay, should the should should the army and the navy seals I don't know anything about it, I've never been to an army. Yeah, I mean should they be softer then?

George 1:17:08

Yeah, that's a good point. Why go through that strenuous exercise? And I think that has great merit. But these are people that have been trained to kill other human beings, so maybe it does have to be as extreme as that to get them in that frame of mind to take another person's life. I don't know. That's it's a yeah, that's a really good point. That's a very good point. Like, I don't know. I uh but I still see there's merit in that difficultness, in that I'm gonna train you this hard to make you tough. You need to be tough because when we're out in when you're in Afghanistan and you're running for your life and you're dodging bullets, they're not gonna turn around and say, Oh, come on, let's just have a mental health day today. We'll just give you a break.

Robby 1:17:48

Have you seen um might get some hate for this, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

George 1:17:52

Have you seen Michael? Michael Oh, the movie? No, you haven't seen it. It's on Prime. What are you doing? I'm sorry. Is it out on Prime now? It is, yeah, you can buy it.

Robby 1:18:03

Okay, so spoiler. No, it's not a spoiler. Does he die? He doesn't know. He's ha ha that's fucked. It's so bad. It's so bad. Um the uh so his dad's like super abusive, yeah, supposedly. I do I do recall the story, yeah. Um but I left that movie and I feel like, and this is gonna be a very unpopular opinion, and I'm willing to cop the backlash on this, but I feel like his dad was painted in the worst light possible for producing the biggest pop star we've ever seen in the world, and everyone is like hating on his dad. And and I I just want to make something clear to everyone. Like, you all get if his dad, I'm not saying his dad was right, but if his dad wasn't who he was, would we would not have Michael Jackson. Yeah, and it's like I get it, I get it. I'm not I'm not I'm not condoning his behavior, I'm not saying he should have beat him more, I'm not saying he should have beat him less, I'm not saying anything like that. I'm simply saying if the behavior was different, the outcome would have been different. Do you know what I mean? And yes, yes, yes, the way he treated him was wrong. And he shouldn't you should not abuse someone like that and so forth.

George 1:19:16

Especially a child, yeah.

Robby 1:19:17

But because he says he says, I I grew up with no childhood, like I had to work every weekend, and it's like, dude, he he fucking drilled a work ethic into you like like a crazy person almost.

George 1:19:28

Like there was no there was no nothing else he could do than succeed.

Robby 1:19:31

Yeah, and you uh you became the world's till this day. I don't know if there is a bigger star on the planet. I agree with that.

George 1:19:39

There's some stat that he's the only artist to ever have like a top ten in each decade. Like even now, when the movie came out, he had his album went to number one again, or some or a song or something went to number one again. Most downloaded song or whatever it was, beat it. I don't even know what it was, but he's the only one to have ever done that. His music will be timeless. Like our kids will be listening to Michael Jackson when they're older.

Robby 1:20:00

He used to have the uh the most number ones for a male artist, but his record recently got beaten. Beaten, beat beat it. Full of jokes, yeah. Um, yeah, and I just think that whole story is like there's another side to I'm not saying his dad's side, I'm not saying that. I'm saying like people aren't thinking about the trade-off. Yeah, they don't think about the outcome of the changed behavior. You know what I mean? They're just thinking about oh, but it can also go it can go both ways.

George 1:20:33

Like there's that story of the uh twins. I don't know, I don't know if this is true or if it's just a story for the sake of being a story, but the twins, abusive father, um, alcoholic father used to beat both kids. Okay, then one day the father dies and the kids get put into foster homes, separate homes. Okay, so they go one one end of the world and the other end of the one end of the country, the other end of the country in America. Then 30 years later, they get reunited. One of the kids turns out to be an alcoholic bum, abusive, just scum of the earth, and the other kid has a loving family, successful CEO, everything going for him, just the greatest world. And then they come together and they ask him, Well, why do you think you turned out that way? And then one, both of them gave the same answer. I said, Well, with a father like mine, what did you expect me to become? So I think with Michael, it could, yes, you're right, did that outcome happen because of how he was treated? But arguably the outcome could have gone the other way too. Maybe he ended up becoming an abusive father and no one knew his name. So it could have gone either way. I think it does come down to the individual a little bit too. Most of the highly successful people in this world, most of them, you go and study any billionaire in this world, most of them have come from adversity. You get a few that are like, oh, you know, my dad was a million, had hundreds of millions, and I don't know how I managed, and I somehow became a billionaire. But then you get the people who are like, I was in the street with a needle in my arm and now I'm a billionaire. Because they didn't let their story determine their future and they took control of everything that had happened and they used that to fuel them. And there's this saying I heard the other day, I can't remember where it was, but chips on shoulders put chips in pockets. And I love that. Yeah, that's so true. Chips on shoulders put chips in pockets. So if you've got a chip on your shoulder, you put chips like casino chips, you know, puts money in your pocket. So it's I I think your story can drive you or it can own you.

Robby 1:22:28

It's up to you.

George 1:22:30

Yeah, very much so.

Decisions Without Regret

Robby 1:22:32

We're meaning, meaning-making machines. I love that too. Love that saying. Um, all right, that's all my questions, man. That's it. That was cool.

George 1:22:39

That was a good it was a good discussion. You know, you could you could probably roll off another 15 questions as well. Like it's some good topics, it's some good discussions, and it's it's things that yeah. Yeah, but so healing I don't know if there's right or wrong answers with anything, but it's just what your interpretation is. And with anything in life and anything in business, you've just got to do the most at the the best decision to make in the moment is the one that you make. That's it. Like, don't have the regret. It's whatever's that that is the best decision you made at the time.

Robby 1:23:06

And most decisions are not permanent. That's right. That's right. You remember?

George 1:23:11

Yeah, I do.

Robby 1:23:12

Yeah, I'll forget. Very good. That's probably that's probably the best thing I've ever heard you say. Oh, is it? You've I've heard you say some good shit. That said something. That was that was that was the one that kind of like that was gold. That's it. All right, on that note, I'm gonna wrap it up there. Um,

Builders Summit Plug And Closing

Robby 1:23:30

when's this airing?

George 1:23:31

We have the Builders Summit in Melbourne tomorrow. Okay, I've already done the maths. I've already done the math. And you know what? Uh full disclaimer, we we haven't actually started the tour yet. Oh, you're gonna I'm gonna ruin it for everyone. We're actually, this is pre-recorded. Pre-recorded, and we haven't started the tour yet, but I've got no doubt that Sydney and Brisbane just went off. Went off, and it was uh epic and sensational, and we're about to do it in our hometown of Melbourne. So if you haven't bought a ticket and you're listening to this, and it's in the a.m. of the Monday that you are listening to this, there is still time. Go to our Instagram page, go to websites, go wherever you want, you will find somewhere. Come on. No, come on, give them a crack. Just let them have a crack. Try your luck. All right, then if you if there's nowhere for you to register, just rock up on the day. Don't rock up. Rock up on the day, go see the team at the front door. There'll be no seats. And just say, hey, there will be no seats. If you, unless you're there at 6.30, just knocking on the door, we're gonna sell out, Melbourne. I'm putting it out there. We're gonna sell out. I reckon it's gonna be the first event that we're gonna have to turn people away and say, sorry, we are over book, we are at capacity. Putting it out there. Robbie's done an exceptional job.

Robby 1:24:37

That's a marketing chat. Ain't that gonna be great when you're like, hey guys, no problem. Yeah, guys, sorry, full. Full out. It's fucking it's it's 11. We started at 7.30.

George 1:24:47

Rocking up at 11. Hey, even if it even if you get to the point where it's like it's um what time do you register? 7.30. And they go, it's eight, it's 8 a.m. So you should have been here. It's registration was 7 30. What's 8 30?

Robby 1:24:59

It's 7 30. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well, people are here at four. Yeah.

George 1:25:03

Should have got here. As soon as you lose. That's it. All right, thanks a lot, guys. Uh lovely to have you a part of the show once again. And we cannot wait to be here same time next week.

Robby 1:25:15

We'll see you there.

George 1:25:16

Peace out. Thanks, everyone.