Million Dollar Days
Welcome to Million Dollar Days with Robby Choucair & George Passas. Your go-to podcast for a deep dive into the world of Life and Business Mastery.
Join hosts Robby Choucair and George Passas, a dynamic marketer and a seasoned Entrepreneur, as they navigate through an array of intriguing topics ranging from the everyday to the extraordinary.
Robby brings his marketing expertise to the table, offering insights into the latest strategies and trends. George, with his extensive experience in business, provides a grounded, practical perspective. Together, they explore everything from the feasibility of alien existence to effective goal setting, and even the nuances of religion.
Million Dollar Days is not just about business acumen; it's an exploration of life's many facets, wrapped up in conversations that are as enlightening as they are entertaining.
Tune in and be part of our journey, where every day is a million-dollar day, filled with learning, laughter, and the pursuit of mastery.
Million Dollar Days
What You Should Do When Work Gets Quiet
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Work feels quieter across construction right now, and we’re seeing the same signal everywhere: fewer decisions, fewer projects starting, and more builders feeling that uneasy gap between “busy today” and “what’s next.” We get real about what actually causes the panic, why the market cycle matters, and how quickly your standards drop when you leave pipeline planning too late.
We break down the practical moves we use when things tighten up: forecasting three to six months ahead, auditing where our last 10 jobs came from, and activating our power base of architects, past clients, developers, and industry contacts. We also talk cash flow and the unsexy discipline of knowing your break-even number, cutting waste, and protecting the business so it survives long enough to recover.
Then we hit a big one: marketing and lead generation for builders. We unpack why people cut marketing first, why that often backfires, and how SEO and brand building reward patience, especially for high-end renovations and architectural homes. If you want bigger jobs, you need a longer runway and a better sales process, not a last-minute Hail Mary with your last dollars.
If you’re heading into a slow patch or you want to bulletproof your pipeline for next year, listen through and take notes. Subscribe, share this with a builder mate who needs a runway, and leave a review with the one move you’re making this month to stay ahead.
Intro And On-Site Trade-Offs
GeorgeGreetings and salutations. How are you going?
RobbyMe? I'm very well.
GeorgeExcellent. I haven't seen you all day. This is pretty much the first time I've seen you today.
RobbyIt's good.
GeorgeIt's excellent. Excellent.
RobbyWe had a time to pre-amble pre-pre podcast.
GeorgeYeah, that's it.
RobbyChat.
GeorgeThanks for joining us, everyone. Where have you been? Another episode of Million Dollar Days. I don't know if you can tell by my attire, but I've been on site all day. Yeah, that's uh very clearly for those listening and that's not high vis. For those I guess you get a high vis blazer. There you go. That'd be something different. Uh for those of you listening and not watching, I'm just I'm not in sight attire, but I was this morning, I went home and changed actually on the tools. And it's funny, as I was um, I went on site this morning and I was helping the boys. Well, when I say helping the boys, I went there with the intention of them to load a trailer full of rubbish so I could pretty much pick it up and go. And as I'm there, I'm seeing them work, like, all right, fucking, let me help you. So got my hands dirty this morning, moving shit around, getting things done. And I was even thinking as I'm doing it, this isn't a good use of my time right now, doing this, even driving to site with the trailer, like I could be doing so many more other things that would generate wealth for the business that would help me grow the business, but I'm here doing the smallest task. And uh it irritated me a little bit. In the same token as well, I didn't mind getting out and about. It was a nice morning. Sometimes changes. Yeah, I think the change was good. So I didn't, I wasn't too hard on myself as much as I preach, hey, you've got to be doing all the big items, the CEO items, not the labouring, not the dig in the hole or whatever it might be, processing an invoice. It was exactly that, you know. Had a new employee start today, so introduced him to the team and got him working and doing what he's doing. And yeah, it was good, good. Got my hands dirty and got the job done and uh back into the office.
RobbyWelcome back. Thanks for having me. Um how was where were where were you what's right?
GeorgeLike which direction actually. Yeah, it was in Baltimore. It was in Balwan, just a project nearing completion, very close. Good day to be on the road. Yeah, it was. It was nice. Did a few. Uh look, I used that time, make a whole bunch of phone calls as well. So it wasn't wasted time by any stretch of the word. And what I did needed to get done, and one of the guys was away sick today, so I just stepped in and did what I had to do.
RobbyMade it happen. That's it. Uh, how are you finding work?
GeorgeI find that we're busy with our current projects. We're we've just handed over one of our bigger projects, which is great. Owners in there and getting stuff done and living in the house. And we're about a couple of weeks out from handing over another really large project. And then in amongst that, we've got our live projects too. So busy at the moment, but I'm also trying to forecast for the future, trying to make sure that the pipeline is filled. So it's definitely something that I'm now starting to go, okay, what's 2027 going to look like?
Why Work Has Gone Quiet
GeorgeWhere are we at with it all?
RobbyThere is a um, I'm gonna point I'm gonna call out the elephant in the room. Good. And so, you know, for those of you who may not know, and if you don't know, I'm doing a horrible job with our advertising, but we run a marketing and media agency, right? And we talk, we work only in this space. And for across the board now, for a few months, we've noticed things have gone quieter than normal, right? And then everyone I speak to, whether it's a current client, whether it's a past client, whether it's a future client, everyone's saying the same thing. There's just not as much activity happening.
GeorgeYeah, but even at our recent events, I asked the question too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Indirectly, I said who's finding it harder to win a project these days? And everyone's hand went up. Every business owner's hand went up.
RobbyYeah, I I feel like um there are there are multiple factors. And I think, you know, for us to provide the audience with as much value as we can, I figured it would be really good if we shared some of the things that, well, you know, some of the things that you do in your business, some of the things that we do in our business, that uh when things do start to tighten up, because all markets go through cycles. Yeah. And it's like, cool, man, like when it's you know, make hay while the sun's shining. That that's a saying for a reason. The sun ain't always shining. Yeah, and sometimes things do tighten up. Um, and I think, yeah, just sharing some of the the strategies, the things we put into place uh would be helpful. So I think undoubtedly the market is probably tighter now than it was six months ago.
GeorgeWithout a doubt. I think even at the start of the year, I already noticed it when uh the year started. I was like, okay, well, where are the new projects at? When are we doing? When are they starting? What are we doing? We won a, well, we verbally were awarded a large project late 25. That project didn't come to fruition. So it was a well, it was about a $13 million townhouse development. And the developer said, Yep, we want to go ahead, let's rock and roll. And then come January, they're like, cool, we're gonna put it on hold. We just want to get some pre-sales before we start construction. Yep, no worries, let us know. A few more months went over, and I said, Listen, price is gone now. Like, I can't maintain that price anymore. But when you're ready, let me know. We can revisit, reshuffle some things around, and make it happen. Long story short, I literally drove past the site today, just by accident. I wasn't planning to, just on my travels, I drove past the site, hadn't started construction. Well, I don't think we'll end up building that job anyway, but they haven't started construction. The site hasn't really been touched since the last time I walked past there. And I think they're probably gonna find it difficult to get that job started anyway, even if they got the pre-sales that they need. Financially. I think their project doesn't stack for what they purchased it for, for what it costs to build and what they're gonna get at the back end on sales, the project doesn't stack. Yeah, well. And that's the I think that's a a relevant thing in a lot of the construction space in Victoria, particularly. But people are not moving everywhere.
RobbyPeople are hesitant to make decisions.
GeorgeHere's the thing, people saying, oh, rising construction costs. Construction costs have plateaued for quite some time. Like I I would much prefer now, actually, I'll not prefer, I will not go in on a cost plus contract now. There's no advantage to me to go do a cost plus contract. They say I reduce risk and all that, yeah, but it's a significant amount more administration. But at the moment, prices are pretty stable and they haven't changed for quite some time. So I would actually be going on fixed lump sum contracts on almost every single job that I would do, unless it was overly complicated that I couldn't specifically give a figure for. And that's not the issue. I think the issue is the market conditions. I think that construction price is here and the sale price is just a little bit higher than that. And that's where the discrepancy is. The resale value. Correct. Correct. Once a product is finished, what is it worth? Now, obviously, different areas will fluctuate in different ways, but for what you're purchasing it for, what the build cost is at the moment and what it's selling for, that that calculation, that formula is very, very difficult to make it stack. Now, unless you're getting a project or a site, sorry, at significantly under market value, or you've been holding it for quite some time, that's probably the person that can actually make money in this market, is the person who's held the site for a long time and has got the equity and the land and they're going to build it. Yes, they will make some money. The other people that can make some money in this market are builder developers. So the person that's a builder buys the site, builds it, makes some money from the build, and then can then sell it thereafter. Again, tighter margins, but they can make some money because they're in control of that whole process. Uh, but you yeah, everyone else, like if you're a pure developer that buys sites, gets the plans and permits, flips it, and moves on to the next one, I think it's a very difficult space. And also the mum and dads.
RobbySo for the people listening who you know might not be a developer, yeah. You know, I I think the real estate market's tight at the moment as well. Um, but for the people who are listening right now who might not be, they're just looking for work. It's like, hey man, we need jobs. Yeah. Um and they're probably feeling the pinch a little bit. Yeah. What uh what's something and you've um I would say you've got a unique experience in that you went through COVID, probably felt the pinch, probably ignored the pinch. Yeah. Um what would you do differently now if I know you've got work, you've got the pipeline, like you're in a good position, but if you weren't and you started to feel the pinch, what would you do as a business owner?
GeorgeLook, I'm I I would be remiss to say that I'm not feeling the pinch now. Oh, you feel like you're feeling it? Yeah, absolutely. I've normally got a lot more work on. So the fact that I don't have a lot more work on, I kind of feel the pinch in that aspect. So I want five to ten projects on per year, if not more. Obviously, that just depends on the size of the projects as well. So uh yeah, for me, I I want more work. I want to be I wanted to be employing people. I don't want to be just going, oh, we have enough. I don't like that. It's the comfort factor. Yeah, yeah.
RobbySo there's there's there's there is um we're stable, there is we're flying, and there is we are quiet. Yes. You know what I mean? Um and I I guess what
Act Early Or Get Desperate
RobbyI'm alluding to here is more the people who are like, hey man, like we we need we need that next week. We need work, yeah. Like I need work, like it's quiet at the moment. You know, here's the thing at a loss for a couple of months.
GeorgeI say this to a lot of people, is they they take too long to act when it's when it comes to because when you say that to me, because I often I've got people I've coached, I've got people that come to events, and they say that to me and they're like, hey, I need a job, like I need work. And I'm like, it's kind of too late. You're not fucked, but it's too late to be saying that to me now. You should have been having this conversation six months ago, because you know better than anyone. If I say, Hey, Robbie, I need a job and I throw I give you some money to run some ads, get your job tomorrow. I know, but it's fun. There you go. Speak to Robbie, end of episode. Thank you very much. Um, but the problem is you'll go out and it takes time. But also, if you get that one inquiry, you're gonna do everything you possibly can to get that job across the line. That may not be your ideal client. You know, your ideal client at that point in time is gonna be anyone with a pulse. Now, you could land that job, you could do it at shit margins, they could end up being the worst clients, they end up you end up losing money on it. You're better off not taking on that project at all, but you take it on out of desperation. And that's kind of where you're gonna be at when you come to me or come to someone and say, Hey, I need a job today. You're already in that level of desperation. You should have been planning this three to six months prior to give yourself the opportunity to go, okay, I'm gonna get Robbie to run some ads. It's gonna take whatever it is, three months, do a three-month campaign for me. I'm gonna get 10 inquiries in that time. I'll price three of them. The three that I price are still gonna take two, three months before I sign them up. And then let's just say November this year, I sign up new projects. We're starting January. Right. And then you filled your pipeline for 27, but you made the decision in July, August of this year. You didn't wait until November, December to say, I have no work next year. What am I gonna do? And then you often find I'm talking specifically in the trade space at the moment and the building space. Then you find a lot of those builders might go out back into the market and try and get a job, as in a P A Y G, or they jump back on the tools and they go, Cool guys, let's start doing carpentry again.
RobbyYeah, we see that a lot. Um you're right. Bang on, I get that call too often.
GeorgeYeah, and I'm sure you would. I'm sure you would get it a lot. It's and what okay. Ring ring, Robbie. I need a job. What do you say at that point in time now? Uh because this is a great insight from the flip side of it, and what what you would say and what your perspective is on that when when you do get that phone call.
RobbyI say, yep. No worries. You'll take on the work because it's work for you. Visa or MasterCard? I've actually, you know what, George? I um I I feel like I have equity in the marketplace. I I have talked myself out of work more times than I can count. You know what I mean? You know, and and sometimes it's come back around, sometimes it hasn't.
GeorgeYeah.
RobbyPurely because I'll have someone who will and it's like sometimes people I know and and they'll come and they'll be like, oh Robbie, like we need to chat, I need to run ads. When can we get to ads live? I'll be like, what's going on, man? Yeah. Like, and they'll say, This is the situation, and if I don't, you know, my revenue's hot, or we're losing, we're bleeding money every month, or whatever it might be, right? In a position where they're like, hey, we've got no more work on. And I'm like, dude, you've never you like you're quiet. Running ads now, like, have you run ads before? And they're like, no. I'm like, dude, running ads now for the first time ever, dealing with cold leads, you don't have a dialed-in sales process, you don't have you got nothing, you're starting from ground. Like, that's not how you should spend your last 10 grand. Do you know what I mean? That's you're making a mistake. And the amount of times I've not I I don't knock work back. I get I tell them, hey, go do this. Like you right now, that thing for you isn't going to be the thing that's likely. You're better off hitting the pavement and calling architects or or other people who can refer you work or past clients and seeing if you can drum up anything like that. You are better off doing that if you're in that position. You are better off doing that than you are to have like you need to be good at sales. Yeah. And most people are not. Yep. And it's like if you've never won a job through a Facebook ad or a Google ad or anything, it is very hard for you to then go and have a Hail Mary swing with your last lump of and say, okay, cool. You know, I'm gonna throw everything at the wall here and see what I can do. Because you just won't, more often than not, won't nail it. You know what I mean? And I can't tell you the amount of time tell people, hey, like go do this, man. Like, trust me, this is not gonna be the thing. You you're gonna fight what's gonna happen? You're gonna call me in 60 days and say you're running out of money, and yeah, it just can't like it's not worth it. It's not worth it for either of us. You're gonna lose, we're gonna lose. Yeah, you're gonna get a bad taste in your mouth. Oh, market Yeah, you're gonna think marketing doesn't work, you're gonna think these guys suck. Uh, you know, you didn't give us enough time, you didn't spend enough, and it's just like it's not worth it, man. You you weren't dialed
Your Power Base And Networking
Robbyin and don't do that. Yeah, do you know what I mean? You're better off going and literally calling every single person.
GeorgeYour power base. That's often the first thing I will say to people. I say, listen, if you're at ground zero right now, you've got to call your power base. And for those of you that don't know what that is, there's a book called Think and Grow Rich. Very old book, but it was first that's where I first read it. A power base of people that you can surround yourself with, that you can reach out to, that are your network, your people that you can drum up uh for advice, for projects, for work. I'm pretty sure it's from that book. Think and Grow Rich. Yeah.
RobbyI thought it was called Grand Cartoon.
GeorgeNo, no, he got it from there 100% now. Now I'm very certain it's from Think and Grow Rich because I remember when he said it and I'm like, he was saying things referencing that book because he does say he likes how much he liked it. Yeah, okay. So I would go to the power base of people and go, all right, who who can I reach out to today that may not have a job but could potentially give me a project and see where that's at. And I did that in March of this year. March of this year. I reached out to my power base and went to a few people and had the conversation and did what I needed to do. It look, it got me in touch with an old developer that I did some work with. He was one of my very first projects. He had a $25 million apartment job. Now, I didn't, I I gave him some budget figures, but nothing's come to fruition with that project, well over his budget, and I'm not really in that space. Could I be? Yeah, potentially. But it opened up an opportunity because I did went and go and speak to him. And when I met with him, he's like, Oh, by the way, I have three other sites in these areas. I want to develop them. Can you help me out? Absolutely, I can. All right. So that would have never happened had I not reached out to him. On top of that, again, spoke to a lot of a whole bunch of architects that I've I've I've done some work with in the past. Say, hey, where are you at? What's news? Got some projects, we're happy to work price in for you and doing a whole bunch of bunch of things. I ended up going to some events where I met another architect and we got had a chat. She came past my office. We sat down, she goes, actually, I've got a project in this area. Uh we'd recently secured it, actually, or recently started, secured it a few months back and sat down with her. She liked what I was about, I liked what she was about, and we priced the job and we won the job. Now, this is me reaching out to my power base in March because I knew around this exact time that I needed, I had to finish, which I said, we're coming into completion on two large projects. So I needed the next one to start. And if the next one hadn't started, it could have been the difference of me going, all right, I need to drop an employee. Whereas now I'm like, I just put someone else on. And it's completely changed. Yeah, it completely changes the landscape. Now I look at my workflow again because I'm in the same position where I was in January of this year. I look at it again and go, cool, those projects that I've got now first quarter of next year, they're done. So I need to look at that and go, well, I can't, I'm not gonna sit here and wait till Feb January Feb when everyone's just coming back to work, it's hot, people are going to the beach, and I'm gonna go, holy shit, I have no more work, what am I gonna do?
RobbyNo. And you need to be quoting that work now.
GeorgeLike it's just a builder. Because it doesn't happen overnight. And you, when I said it to you the other day, I go, it's gonna take three months to land a job. And you're like, what the fuck? How are you gonna do that? Because why does it take so long? I go, well, it's it's just the process. It's not that the job takes me three months to quote. It's I'll submit the, I'll do the quote four to six weeks, depending how big the job is. They review it, we meet up. Hey, can you change this? Can you change that? Uh, can we add this? Can we deduct that? And by the time you actually sign a contract, it's gonna be three months, best part of. And then you're like, cool, when can we start? And like, oh, I've got to get the owners out, I've got to get the tenants out, another four weeks or eight weeks. All right, and you've got to wait for that. And it's like, oh, there's another two months. And then by the time the job actually starts, it's often six months from the time, six to twelve months from the time that you actually price it to the time that you start on site. There's a beat a bit of time there. So even if you do get that ideal client that lands, say let's just say a Hail Hail Mary happens, all right. And Robbie, you get me the ideal client, I price it, I win it, I do everything. I'm still gonna be three, four months before I have a job. So it takes time. It takes time. It takes time. And people underestimate that and they're so busy now because I'm busy now. As I said, I was running around on site. One of my employees was sick, means I haven't been in the office as much today. But you get so busy and so caught up in everything that you're doing that you lose focus on the future and you don't properly plan for it, and that's where you find yourself in a world of hurt. So 100%, if you need work, your power base is the very first place you need to look and reach out and shake hands. Like tonight, I'm dressed up a little bit right now because I'm going out this afternoon with that architect that I mentioned before. It's a networking event. There's going to be other architects there, there's going to be other people there that I can just have a chat with. I'm going with my GM and have the conversation. Now, something might come of that, nothing might come of that. Whatever it is, but 100% nothing will come of that if I don't go. So reach out to the people that you can.
RobbyUm, okay. What else could people do? So obviously you want to you want to try and drum up work. Yes, that's one thing. What else should people do if it's you know that you go you're coming into a quieter season? We don't know how long it's gonna be. No season lasts forever.
GeorgeYes,
Know Your Numbers And Cut Waste
GeorgeI I also feel that if you can get through this period of time, I think you're gonna come out the other end and be very busy as well. Yeah, I think the market's gonna shift. That's right. I think it's gonna shift, and I think that everyone's gonna, and that could be with a change of government. Let's hope that that happens. It could be with a change of government. It could mean that I don't know, interest rates go down, whatever it might be, just drum up spending again, who knows? But whatever might happen, it will change eventually. It's not always gonna be like this. So I think you've just got to knuckle down during this period and get that done. One thing that I would do, I I'd probably shift the focus from right now to a long-term strategy as well. You've got to be building brand. That's a forever game. Always creating content, always posting, always trying to engage, um, hitting your CRM. You know, that's another thing that you should be doing. Hitting your CRM up, sending out emails, getting in touch with the broader community, all that sort of jazz. I think that's a very important thing to be doing too.
RobbyUm, I think it's important to be on top of your numbers, like actually understand what it what's your break-even rate? Like how much money do we need to make every month to stay afloat? You know what I mean? And if we don't make that money that month, that month runs at a loss. Because it gives you uh full clarity. And I also think knowing your numbers in your business is is super important, but then doing a review every now and again. Yeah. Because sometimes you can review stuff and all of a sudden you're like, fuck, that subscription we're paying $400 a month for. Yeah. No one's logged in for nine months.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyYou're like, why are we what are we doing? Like that's that's five grand a year. Do you know what I mean? Why are we spending that money and and doing a a complete uh analysis on everything everything that runs through the company? What's actually company costs? Where are we bleeding cash? That you know, are we do we have leaky holes? And where can we because when you're making money, like sometimes it's like I'm so focused on this thing that's bringing money in that trying to stop and save the money right now is not the focus. It's just not. Like you're like, that's just like leave it. You know, the whole thing around um the big fire and the small fire. It's like just put out the big fire for now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyUm, and I think doing it doing a full assessment and working out, you know, where you can and it's not a it's not a scarcity mindset, but it's like where where can you what are the things you can plug now to stop the bleeding?
GeorgeYes, yes. And we spoke about this just before the podcast. A lot of people will look at that and go, okay, I'm spending money on things, and they go, All right, I need to stop my marketing.
RobbyYeah, it happens almost always.
GeorgeYeah, there's a few years. One of the things that people look at. And I look at this because I've got one of my other businesses is partly a subscription style business in the sense that they pay a monthly rate. And I look at some of those people that I'm mentoring and and guiding through that process, and they're like, hey, we need to stop our our mentoring and our um and this program because we're we're uh we're trying to tighten up the ship and you know we've got lots of expenses and so on and so forth. And I'm like, okay. Okay, you're stopping the thing that's going to help you get through this thing.
RobbyYeah, it's true.
GeorgeYou know, and the great analogy we just said before with marketing as well. You know, you could say, no, you're the marketer.
RobbyNo, okay. Come on, you say it. Nah, sure. All right. You're very happy with it. I was so happy with it.
GeorgeI was so happy with it. You're like, if you're if you're starving and you're growing food, you're like, hey, let's stop watering the plants because water costs money.
RobbyYeah.
GeorgeAnd and and that's marketing.
RobbyThat is marketing.
GeorgeThat's marketing. I'm so pumped to use that. I'm going to draw it up on my flip chart. We're not going to be able to do that.
RobbySee it so much, dude.
GeorgeYeah, and I kind of understand, right? Because they'll look at it and sometimes businesses think, oh well, marketing something, it's a luxury. It's something we do when we're making a lot of money. That's what you want to do.
RobbyOr it's or they see it as a cost. This is a cost of the business. Exactly. And I've got another story for that too. Did you just stop paying rent? Do you know what I mean? Like you just sit there, like, nah, but we're closing the office for two months. Yeah. Like it doesn't make any sense. Um, but it's also like um It is an investment. It's it's a it's a it's a you need to forecast for it. You know what I mean? Um I I would say going back to like what I was saying before about talking ourselves out of work, there are people who have said, all right, let me start SEO. And I'm like, dude, if you can't pay for this for at least six months, don't start. Like if you don't have six months in the bank now, don't start. Yeah, don't do it. Yeah. And sometimes they won't. And and that's okay, because I'd rather not do two months, get do all the hard work at Sargi on board and then you disappear. Yeah. Or you can't, you're like, I can't do it anymore. Um people in that position, man. I think it's a it's a it's a financial forecasting uh thing. Do you know what I mean? Like being able to cash flow funds, which I would say many builders wouldn't you say it's the number one reason builders get bust? Cash flow, right? Or someone else going bust or blah blah blah.
GeorgeYeah, it it it shit flows downhill. Yeah, so there is an element of that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um I see it with I see it with so many people, man. I see it with the best builders. You know, that's what's the concerning thing. Define the best builder. As in a successful builder, a the perceived successful builder. I know some builders that everyone knows, right? If I said the names, I'm not going to. But if I said their names, everyone knows that builder. I know the directors of those guys. Not some of them I know personally, some I don't. I know they've got those same challenges. You know, the cash flow issues. And it's not perceived like they do, but they have them. They exist. They always have that. Everyone, every builder I've ever met has that one story of that client or clients that haven't paid, that don't pay, that whatever it is. Um and yeah, it's a very challenging space. But um, yeah, going back to what you're saying, the marketing is an investment. Like, think about when you're going and buying a property, when you're buying stocks, when you're buying anything, you are putting money in with the intent of getting more money on the back end of it. That's the definition of marketing. You are paying to run ads. I'm going to put money in, and then what am I going to get out of it? A project that's going to be worth a lot more than the money that I spent to get the project. That's kind of the idea. It's an investment, and that's the definition. But people just see it as an expense. They go, I can't pay that. It's the unknown. It is the unknown, which is why people don't do it. They look at it and go, I don't know if I put this money in that I'm going to get my money back. And comes back to what you said, some fundamentals like being good at sales, understanding the process of how to nurture a lead and how to get them through the door and all that sort of stuff.
RobbyThey also there's a there's a multitude of factors that come into play. Do you know what I mean? Like there's a million different things. Um building brand. I heard this cool thing someone said the other day. They're like, you build brand for one reason to reduce your cack, which is your cost to require a customer. That's the only reason. You purely build brand so that you can get people for less. Yes. That's it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyThere's no couldn't agree more. Yeah. And I was just like, that's a fucking fantastic explanation. Yeah. Like it's a very good explanation. And she's like, you're 100% right. The whole purpose, and that's why I say like people say, oh, but you build brand, it brings you money back. Yeah. That's how it brings you money back. It it increases your level of influence. That's right. You know what I mean? Which in turn, you're increasing your level of influence should allow you to close more deals. And if you can close more deals, your cost to acquire a client goes down. Yeah.
GeorgeWithout a doubt.
RobbyWithout a doubt. Um, yeah, I don't know. People people don't do it. They stop the stuff that can kind of um keep them afloat in that period. Can I tell a story? Of course. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
GeorgeThe
Marketing Is An Investment
Georgeother day I came into your office. Now you've been doing my SEO. For those of you that don't know what SEO is, Google it. It's search engine optimization. So effectively. It's effectively people getting it's effective you paying to get people to come to your website and see who uh where you are and where you rank on Google, on what page. All right. So you've been doing it now for how long? Have you been doing my SEO, please? You know probably more than I do. At least a year and a half.
Robby18 months. Yeah, 18 months, maybe.
GeorgeLet's just say argument's sake, a year and a half. Yeah. We uh PASCON is in the space of architectural homes. That's what you're branding us in the SEO that you're doing, and a whole range of other keywords and whatnot. But 18 months I've not received I've received uh in 18 months I've received maybe two leads, but weren't the ideal client. So I didn't pursue them. Or I I made the call that no, this isn't the project that we want to do. And then this month, earlier this month, I think it was, we got an inquiry. Got the inquiry, looked at it, called them, went through my process, did everything I did. They've sent me the drawings, and I was so pumped when I got that that I called you on Saturday. And what'd I say? Sick lead. Okay, this is a sick lead. Yeah, they went through the whole process. They downloaded our um they well, they went to the website. First of all, how did you find up find out about us? It's always one thing I always ask because I want to know where do I put more money.
RobbyYou gotta know. 100% so they're like and it's asked on the website as well.
GeorgeYes, I Googled you, fantastic. All right, so as soon as you said I Googled you, Robbie's done his job. This project's come in, I've looked at it, like sick house. Fantastic. Right on a, I won't say where, but it's right on a river, fantastic. And I'm looking at it and I go, okay, that I did some high-level budgets for it because I've sent them something as part of my process. It's a five million dollar job. It's actually over five mil, including GST, so just under plus GST. Now think about that. 18 months I've had to do SEO without zero return. And my space is harder. You've mentioned that it does take longer.
RobbyThere's a rule with marketing. It's the bigger the plane, the longer the runway. You know what I mean? You want to bigger jobs.
GeorgeYeah.
RobbyIf you have a bigger plane, you need a longer runway. If you want to win bigger jobs, it takes people a longer period of time for them to make a decision. You will make a $10 purchase without thinking twice. You won't make a $10 million purchase in the same time. That's right. You'll take a lot more time. You'll do study and research and read reviews. And you don't read reviews on something that costs you four dollars. You just don't. No. Do you know what I mean? Do you know how many do you know how many Google reviews McDonald's has?
GeorgeNo.
RobbyNo one knows. No one knows. Why? Because you don't check it. Yeah. Because you don't care. Because you're not going, you know what I mean? You can you can look at it, huh? I'll look pumped. Look at the one in Maravidon. I left them one side. Um the the bigger the plane, the longer the runway. Meaning the bigger the jobs you want to do, the e the longer it's going to take for you to get into that market, for you to start to get generate inquiries and win jobs. Yeah. You know what I mean? It just takes a longer period. We did a study with a client who was doing jobs that were around 800k. 800k to a mil. You know what their average lead life cycle was? So lead life cycles from when they first found out about you. So first touch point to sign contract. 11 and a half months.
GeorgeThat's that's a fair bit.
RobbyYeah. And that's not that much. Like that's not a high. That's for if you just do renters and stuff, yes, it's high. But if you do new builds, that's not high.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyYou know what I mean? Um, yeah. So the bigger the plane, the longer the runway. You want to play in the bigger fields, you need to be willing to commit to longer periods of I I will play devil's advocate.
GeorgeI thought it would happen sooner. I honestly did. And I thought, okay, we'll do SEO. I would have thought at least in six months I'll start to get inquiries.
RobbyYeah, but what are you basing that on?
GeorgeYour previous clients, or whatever it might be, or stories I've heard, or six months is a decent amount of time. Surely you should be able to do something if you're that good, Robbie. Come on. I know you. I've got the inside scoot.
RobbyI'm not God.
GeorgeI'm surely you're gonna look after me better than anyone, everyone else.
RobbyI'm not God. Um, no, but really, like it's like people have that expectation though, and then it's like, what do you base that off? What are you basing that off? And they're like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, it's like that's right. It's a it's a lack of education and understanding.
GeorgeDo you know what I mean? So it didn't happen. That's okay. I still kept the course, I still just kept going because the other thing that was happening in the background, although I wasn't getting the inquiries, I was ranking higher in those pages. So I could see. But you knew what to look for. Yeah, but you showed me too. Like I didn't look for I didn't know what to look for. But it's also considering that even when it's a cold lead or someone that you're trying to help understand what SEO is and what it's about, I didn't know. And you had to show me. So I was seeing that we started to rank higher and higher and higher. And then one day you said, Hey, great news, you're on page one of Google. Someone will Google this keyword. You're on the first page. Well done. And that's great. Now we're there. So from this point on, now it's like, okay, well, when everyone, whenever anyone searches these key phrases or these keywords, we're gonna be on the first page. And 18 months later, that one project that we've been looking for, or projects, has come through. Lady literally messaged me today. She says, Hey, thanks for sending that through. Going to review it over the next couple of days, and I'll get back to you soon. Said, fantastic. Let me know if you need anything uh further. Look forwarding, look forward to chatting with you. Now, $5 million home. All right. Let's pretend I've been spending $5,000 a month on SEO. Okay, so what's that $60, 30? That's $90,000 over a year and a half. Okay. Would I pay $90,000 to get a $5 million project? Of course you would. Thank you very much.
RobbyYeah. Of course you would.
GeorgeOf course you would. I wouldn't even think twice about it.
RobbyThere's two things. There's that, there's that that element. You know what I mean? And you ask people like, who would who in the room, we do this at events, who in the room would you know, keep your hand up. If I had a job for a million-dollar contract, I should name a net profit on it. I should say it's gonna net 20%. So you're gonna make $200K, let's just say, on a million dollar build. It's gonna net 20%. Who would and then because it's like if you're gonna make $200K, it's almost silly not to pay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyAlmost at least. I'd pay $100K.
GeorgeOkay, I'm gonna give you $100K if it has a side aspect of that too. It's like, yes, you're paying $100K to get that job, but that's just one. What if you get two? Yeah, but if you get three, what if you get five? The other side here is you're also ranking higher on Google for those uh using SEO as an example.
RobbyYeah, yeah.
GeorgeSo you're getting the other benefits of it too.
RobbyYeah, but the other side of you as well is like on you on your end, is it took you 18 months to get into a position that you're being found by those people.
unknownYes.
RobbyBut now you're in that position. Now I'm in the position. So like you could land another one in two months. Yeah. You could land another one in three months, in five months, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then it's like all of a sudden that amount just halved or it reduced significantly. But you need to be found in order to you can if five people find you, it's impossible to generate more than five leads unless that person has multiple leads on their source. But otherwise, it's like that's the game. That's the game. And the people cut the they bite the hand that feeds them. They cut off the thing that's you know, the lifeblood of the business.
GeorgeYeah. Um I was pumped, honestly, so pumped when I got that lead. I was like, everything that we've been working towards together has just happened. And I'm like, that's great, because now the next step for us is to tender this project, which we will. Haven't started yet, but we will. And then go through that process and then secure the project. So this is the other thing with my with your power
SEO Patience And The Long Runway
Georgebase now. I want to touch back on that. So I got the drawings, saw who the architect was, don't know them. I haven't actually built for them. I know of them, but I haven't, I don't know them. Speaking to a friend and a colleague, actually, the other day, he said, Hey, what's going on? How's work? What's this? What's that? I said, Yeah, look, I'm pricing this job. And he goes, he goes, Oh, who's the architect? I said, This is. He goes, Oh, Nick. He goes, I know him very well. He goes, let me put in, let me put in a good word. He goes, I'll call him right now. I said, Why? Let me tend, let me get the tender first, then call him. He goes, I guarantee you he will be managing this project for the client. Guarantee it. He goes, he does it on every single one of his jobs. I goes, you good to deal with? He goes, fantastic. He's a good good architect. I said, All right, make the call. So then there's my influence again, all right? My power base. He didn't get me the job. He didn't get me the lead. But now, because of my connection with my power base, he knows the architect who can then put in a good word for us and say, oh, I know on good authority that Pascon is a great builder, that they can deliver this project. And I, if we can get the job to work with them, let's make it happen. That'll be a great choice for you. So then there you go with that's real, real influence. It's huge influence. And then let's go back again. Now we're going to talk about brand. Like you said, if I'm now building a personal brand and this lady connects with me, show sees or person, they connect with me, the guy, the husband and the wife, the part, the people building the home, see me on socials and go, oh wow, George does this, George does that. Oh, he's involved here. Oh, he gives, oh, he's done a funny video. That's so hilarious. Whatever it is. Does a podcast. And then they go to Pascon and they see that too. And they go, Oh, wow, look at all the projects they're doing. This is the other thing. Part of my sales process was I was able to say, well, here's your budget proposal. Here's a bit of a spiel. By the way, we've just recently finished a project very similar spec to your home. Here's a video for it, which you guys recently did for us. It was on YouTube, it's on socials, and I just sent them the links. So then they click that, they watch that. That's brand. Now other companies are like, hi, yes, thank you. And now imagine if you didn't have anything and you're like, yes, we'll price it right away. And you just get into pricing it. That's not a process. That's that's desperation.
RobbyYou send that from huh? You send that from you know, building construction at gmail.com. Oh, don't get me don't get me upset. Um yeah, it's it's um as humans. I feel like we don't play the the long game enough.
GeorgeYeah, many things. You know what I mean? It delayed gratification. We all want everything today. We all want it tomorrow. We love speed, we love speed. I I love speed, I love it as well. I wish I could have everything that I want today, and there is a level like what is it, patiently aggressive, you know? That's how you gotta be. Like, I'm patient. I'll I will get them, they will come, but you've got to be aggressive in the same perspective and actually make some moves, not just sit here and be patient and just go, it will come when it comes. No, no, it will come. I've got to work for it though, and make things in place. And if it's not coming, I need to get up and shake some shit around. Yeah, shake some stuff around. Yeah, just do something different. And the the opportunities will come, uh, and this is where people just man, they don't hit the grind enough, they don't do enough, they don't they think they are, but I just see so many people getting in their own way with so many things. And it was most evident in the last Builder Summit tour that we did, I think. I'm seeing a room full of our biggest numbers, our biggest show rates to date across three states. And there's so many people in the room that, oh yeah, like want to take the action, want to want they want, they want, they want, but they don't do. So, man, good luck. It's a tough world out there.
RobbyIf uh if someone's listening to this now and they're going through you know, a quieter period in their in their business, or you know, maybe they're a sole trader, uh what should that person do?
GeorgeLook, at the end of the day, you need money to come in. So you may have to take on a project that you don't necessarily want to do. If you are a skilled tradesman, you might have to jump back on the tools in certain elements. It might mean you have to go and build a Pagola. Might mean you have to go on great. You love them, you're an expert, especially without permits. What? Um you might have to go do stuff like that. You know, you might have to go get a job for six months or go and help another builder that you know and say, listen, man, do you have any contract work? I'm just quiet for the next six months. I just want to get through this period, and then you can still be pricing jobs in the background, and maybe then you can run ads because you're not desperate for that job. You've got your income, you've got you can eat. Okay, and then you've got to cover your basics. And then at night time, I'm gonna price this job when I get home and do all my takeoffs, do everything, send the emails out to all the trades, and away we go. So depending at what level of the what end of the spectrum you're at, when you're where you're quiet, are you just quiet now? Have you got three weeks? Have you got three months? Like how much work have you got will probably determine what your actions are gonna be next.
RobbyAs in how long what how your runway of work is. Yeah, runway. That's what I was gonna do.
GeorgeUm that's where that's what you might have to do and eat a bit of humble pie, but learn from that because then the next time you have a quiet patch, you're gonna be ready for it. Like as I said, I'm getting ready now. I'm not getting ready in December, I'm getting ready now for my quiet patch in at the end of the first quarter next year.
RobbyWhat's what's the um what's the worst thing you can do when things go quiet?
GeorgeYeah, good question. The worst thing you can do, well I suppose nothing. Hope hope for it in hope for a referral to come in.
Robby100%. That's it. That's without a doubt the worst thing you can do. That's it. That is without a doubt. Do nothing. Like if you just if you're quiet now.
GeorgeI don't think that could. They would either go broke or they would Yeah, but that happens. Yeah, if they do nothing.
RobbyYeah, I I but I truly believe that that would be a portion of people. Do you know what I mean? There's people who would that get quiet and they would just be like, I think those people just go and get a job.
GeorgeHope it picks up. I think those people stop, put tools down, and go get a job. And there's nothing wrong with that. No issues whatsoever. Tell me about it. I used to say it, dude. Like, if everything hit, let's just just say, I don't even know. I'd pack bags at Kohl's if I had to. I would do whatever I need to do. I don't have those people.
RobbyI don't I don't have them. Who's who packs bags at Kohl's? I don't know. It doesn't sound like checkout chick.
GeorgeIs it really? I don't go to Coles, I'll get my servants to go to Coles for me.
RobbySo have you seen that Ricky Jamace joke where he's like, I don't go to the grocery store. Yeah, is it is a thousand dollars. Is that enough for milk? It's like uh good way to piss people off. Yeah, it's so good.
GeorgeSo what was I saying? Um, yeah, just do what you gotta do. Do what you gotta do. So I think those people, if you're in um if you're in like literally no man's land, soul trader, absolutely nothing coming in, nothing on the horizon, you gotta go eat, man, unless you've got a huge kitty in the background
What To Do In A Slow Patch
Georgethat you can just live off for six months for a year. To weather the storm, yeah. Weather the storm. Unless you have that, go out and work. Go out and find a job.
RobbyYeah. I also think like, you know, storms are forever. You gotta you gotta factor that in. So it's like if it's a quiet period, you just you continue to chip away. You I spoke with uh an agent that I know and I said, How's the market? And he goes, He goes, Things are moving, he goes, but with you know, in a period where you feel like you've got to do three times as much work to get it to move.
GeorgeAnd that's happened sometimes. That's just the game at the moment. That's the game. You gotta work, you've got to do more work to get it across the line. Yeah, it's more difficult to run when it's called that, you know, because a lot of people won't do the work. A lot of people saying that they just they believe the hype. It's like it's hard, okay. And yeah, it's oh we can't win as much work, and what are you gonna do about it? I'm not gonna do it for you.
RobbyYeah, okay, or okay, you're right.
GeorgeYeah, you win.
RobbyYeah, yeah, right.
GeorgeYou win, you won.
RobbyWhat now? You are correct. Yeah, what now? What are you gonna do now? Um, yeah, it is it is look, it is undoubtedly quiet across the board.
GeorgeI think it's also a good opportunity to level up a little bit too. If you're relatively quiet, maybe that's a great time for you to work on some systems, on some processes. Maybe it's a good time for you to upskill and go, hey, you know what? I'm gonna go do that sales course I should be should have been doing when I was you know, flat out, uh sorry, flat out just going gun-ho trying to get this job finished. Maybe I'm gonna go do that sales course now. Maybe I'm gonna connect with this person. People don't think that's never, never, never, never. At all. Yeah, because that, why? Because then they have to pay for the course most of the time, it's not for free, and they have to invest in themselves. I don't have time to do that. I gotta go sit here and wonder why I don't have any work and why I can't close anyone.
RobbyYou know what else I think is a really good thing to do? I think um just stopping what you're doing and saying, okay, where are my last like if if you go to Chase Revenue saying where are my last 10 jobs come from? Like and and actually doing an audit and saying, all right, cool, like what's come from who's come from where? Uh you know, five of the last 10 jobs have come from this one architect or this one builder. Cool. Call him. Yeah, yeah. Like literally the reason for 50% or her. He's literally they are literally the reason for 50% of your revenue over the last few years or whatever it might be. It's like call the person. Yeah, you know what I mean? Get clear on what's the thing you can do right now uh that has the highest likelihood of bringing some money back in, and then don't stop until something does. That's the reality. You know what I mean? Um Wing Tower does not last forever. And sometimes you just have to weather the storm. And then your goal is to make sure you're not in this position again. If you are in that position, you know, if you're in a position where cash is tight and you don't know how you're gonna make payroll, uh try and get weather the storm and then get to the other side and say, all right, how do we not do that again? The other side of this as well, do you believe in cutting people?
GeorgeCutting, culling.
Staffing Decisions And Cash Flow Lessons
GeorgeCulling, sure. Um what did you said? Cutting. Cutting, uh. Yeah, I think so. If it needs to happen, it's always I always look at projects as I look at the business as resource-based. So if I don't need a contract administrator, I don't need one. Yeah, if because what's the worst that's gonna happen? I'd I'd rather get rid of them and then have to hire that role again in six months' time if I need to. Or hire that person again in six months' time.
RobbyI 100% agree, or reduce their hours.
GeorgeReduce their hours, absolutely. And that's one thing I learned by getting punched in the face. I did that during COVID. I kept everyone on, I kept everyone's hours the same. No, everyone got paid every week, every cent, everything. I got no assistance from government cash-outs or anything like that. And I kept everyone on. Looking back, everyone should have been on a 32-hour work week at least. One day only? At least. Uh, but that's across, you know, 10 people.
RobbyYeah, but so if you reduce, if you reduce, um, wasn't it? If you reduce up to a certain point, they can go clean the government funding.
GeorgeOh, can't remember, but yeah, maybe. But um, but that's what I should have done, but I didn't, because I, in all honesty, I didn't know what I didn't know. I wasn't as experienced in business as what I am now.
RobbyYou need to forecast the work. Yeah. Turn around and say, okay, cool, based on the thing, I had the work.
GeorgeI had so much fucking work to do at the time. We just couldn't pump out the air. I just couldn't, they weren't effective in those hours that they were working because there were so many restrictions on what they could do and what I could do as a business and how to build these homes. Yeah.
RobbySo I could have returned.
GeorgeOh, huge, massive black swan. But again, I've learned from that and I would look at it from the perspective of and saying, okay, contract administrator, okay, apprentice, whatever it is, you're now going to be going down to a four-day work week. You're now going to go down to a three-day work week. Oh, you can't do that. You know, I need this. I've got a job, I've got a kid, I've got a dog and a goldfish. How am I going to feed them? Yeah. And look, you're not doing it to be an arsehole. No, of course not. I say, listen, I understand you have challenges. If you need to go and look for other employment opportunities, I completely understand. You have your own responsibilities. My responsibility is to the business. Keep the ship afloat. Yeah. My responsibility is to make sure that this business is still around next year and the years after that. So if I have to reduce your hours in order for the ship to be around, that's this, that's what it's going to take. And then maybe that means I can employ you again in two years' time.
RobbyYeah. Because people might hear that and disagree with it. But the the flip side of that, you gotta understand, is like, okay, nah, I try and do the right thing by you, and then the whole ship sinks. And now like now we've got 20 unemployed people. Yeah, that's right. And it's like all because I didn't know how to handle a single situation. And I got I was like that.
GeorgeI was having I had a sinking ship during that time. And it wasn't until the sort of aftermath that I realised how bad it was. Yeah, that's what I mean. I've learned I've learned my lesson. I've learned my lesson massively. And I said it to my GM the other day. I was like, hey, if we don't land this job, this person's at risk. Okay, just between you and me, this doesn't leave this conversation, this table. Okay, but as in with the person I was having it with, with Simon. I was like, if this, if this did you think I thought we were having a private conversation? Right now, a private conversation before anyone. Yeah. So before everyone hears this, cut this out.
RobbyCut this out.
GeorgeBut it's like, this person's at risk. And it's like, oh, really? He's a he's a he's a gun. Like they're really good. I said, I know. I don't want to do this. So let's win another job. So I did. And as a result of that, now I'm like, okay, cool. I want to keep everyone employed. I want everyone to keep being here and to keep doing really well and to keep growing. So that's my responsibility to be going and winning the business, not doing what I did this morning where I was shoveling shit and throwing stuff away and sweeping floors, that's not going to get me the next job. It helped that project, but that's not going to get me the next job. So when the guys, you know what, as an employee, if I saw the boss coming on site and saying, hey, and they're sweeping floors, say, what are you doing? Let me sweep the floor. That's what you pay me for. You go out and win more work so I can go sweep more floors. No employee will ever say that. You're never going to think like that as an employee. Never will. You never will. But imagine if you did that that person ends up being a business owner or some level of entrepreneur. And uh the huge level of awareness to say something like that as well to a boss. And you know what we should do?
RobbyInteresting stuff. We should do an episode on how to be a good employee. Cool. I reckon I'd nail it. I reckon we're gonna, matter of fact, we're gonna do that. Um, but we should definitely do that. I think that'll be a great episode.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
GeorgeI mean, we've both been employees. Yeah, for sure. I like to think I was a really good employee when I was working at the companies, but I also I also think I did some shit things too. Like what? Well, we'll talk about it in our episode when I talk about it now. But um I'd say just probably having a level of entitlement in certain things, potentially. You thought you were entitled? Yeah, having a level of it, yeah. I don't know what it is, I can't remember off the top of my head specifically, but I'll think about it for next episode.
RobbyYeah, okay. Well then we should definitely make that the next episode. But on that note, um, you know, if you're a business owner, not an employee, uh, I think you just gotta you just gotta keep going. You know, it's right. It is, it is it is tougher out there at the moment. And I think you just gotta keep going, head down, bum up. And I I say I say this thing and it upsets some people. But I say like in times like these, like it's what separates the boys from the men.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
RobbyAnd then people do they're misogynist, blah blah blah. And it's like, come on, man, like just let us have this thing. It's a good thing, it's a good thing. I like it. It's what separates the boys from the men. And I think um, you know, when when times uh get a little bit hard, you're gonna find out who is who's here to play and who's not. Yeah, and it and it weathers out anyone who is not willing to weather the storm.
GeorgeYeah, and that's what these periods of time do.
RobbyYeah, it's it's like a it's a bit of a cleanse. Yeah, that's the word. Cleanse. Um it's a bit of a cleanse. And it's like, cool, let's see who comes out the other side. Gonna hunker down, gonna work a little bit harder to get to jobs that I might have won a bit easier previously, but we're gonna do it. Because then when you come out on the other side, you'll be better for it.
GeorgeOh, without a doubt. You'll be better for it. Be pumped for the challenge. It's gonna work out. Have that unwavering belief that it'll be. How do you know that?
RobbyWhat is it that allows you to have that belief?
Mindset, Mentors, And Planning Ahead
GeorgeI'm not dead.
RobbyIt's a good start. It's not the end. What what is what's the worst that's gonna happen? I'm gonna get that on my tombstone. What's the worst that's gonna be? It's gonna it's gonna work out. Yeah. It's gonna work out.
GeorgeIt's gonna work out. We're all going the same plane. Doesn't matter. Like every day, like what's the worst? Have take your shot, give it a go, work hard. It's not gonna it's it's always gonna work out. You know, like I think back to all the th what's the thing that you were stressing about in 2023? Like specifically, that one thing that you were stressed out about. You can't even fucking remember what it was. I was in Greece. Well, what a life. Bet you're not stressed. That's right. That's stress there. But you know what I mean? So that thing you were because you would have been stressed about something at some point in that year. Something would have stressed you out. You can't even remember what it was. It's the same for the moment that you're feeling right now. You're gonna be stressed out about something that's probably not gonna even matter in one week, five weeks, five years. It's part of the journey. It's part of the journey. The challenges come with the territory. You just got to be able to navigate them. And you get better at it. As I said, I the Georgian during COVID, when I didn't know how to manage my employees, when I didn't know how to manage elements of the business, like I suffered during that time. I don't remember the exact feeling, but now I know that when that thing comes up again, I can turn around and make a quick call. That's the call we've got to make. Hey, spend money on marketing today because we need to get the job in the next three months so we can price it by the end of the year, win it by the end of the year, and 27 is booked out. That's what you got to do. And look, a lot of that comes with um experience. And when you don't have the experience, the way that you get that experience is by speaking to mentors, speaking to advisors, going and reading books, listening to podcasts like this one, and then going, holy shit, those guys actually know what they're talking about. Maybe I should listen to them. Maybe I should call Robbie and have a conversation about marketing because I know in six months' time I'm not gonna have this, this, this, and this. So I need to start looking at it now.
RobbySo that's and we do, we we get those calls too. Yeah. People call and they're like, hey, I'm booked out for 12 months. Yep. I know I need to do something there.
GeorgeYeah.
RobbyIt's like fucking fantastic, dude.
GeorgeGreat client for you. Well done. Yeah, exactly. Well done. I mean, well done. That's the person that's forecasting and saying, I need this person who's gonna win, dude. Yeah, they're gonna win because they don't need the work today. And the funny thing is, he'll probably go, all right, let's run some ads, see what happens. You run the ads, and he wins another job in three months. Yeah. And it's the ideal client. It's the ideal client too, because during that period, you're gonna be like, nah, don't like that one. I don't like them. It's because you can. So then that ideal client that you get after you've spent your marketing dollars, you're gonna make the most amount of money on them. They're gonna be an absolute pleasure to work with and maybe give you more work in the future. And it's like, well, no-brainer. But everyone goes to that last minute and goes, okay, I'm gonna delay investing in my business till the very last moment, so that when I do finally get some ads, I'm gonna call these people. They're gonna be the worst clients, making the least amount of money, maybe even lose money, and then marketing doesn't work, or this industry's fucked.
RobbyYeah, or it doesn't work for me. Yeah. Or Facebook ad doesn't work in my area. Yep. Or Google's too expensive. Yeah. And here's the thing, guys.
GeorgeI have right now the best clients. All of them. Fantastic. Love working with all of my clients now. I have to have the worst clients and learn what that was like so I could identify what the best clients are like. Now, these best clients I have, they were selected by me. It was part of my sales process. I've vet them when I'm going through the sales process to see are they any good? This $5 million job, that's part of the puzzle.
unknownRight?
GeorgeThat it's come in and said, hey, great project. What if the owners turn out to be psychopathically? Like I sit with them and they're like, oh, you need to do this and this and this, and you have to build it this way. And if you don't build it that way, then we're not gonna work with you. All right. I want you, George, to be on site every single day, no one else. I don't want anyone else, I want you to be on site as a site manager. I said, okay, I can do that. Just add another zero to the end. Oh no, we're not gonna do that. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. All the best. All right, so they might not be the ideal client, but if you're going down the other end and you're saying, hey, I need a job, I need a job, maybe you're gonna bend to those demands. And then you end up winning a project that you should never win or that you would never normally do.
RobbyYeah, you would have avoided previously.
GeorgeCan I ask you a question? What about marketing companies? Should marketing companies be marketing? Doing their own ads?
RobbyYeah, I think so. I think so too. To some degree.
GeorgeYeah.
RobbyLike you should be we we run ads, so we've we've almost always got an awareness ads running. Yeah. I just think it's like whatever.
GeorgeThis is who we are to see who we are. Um and it's like you, you, you're running the ads. Like it's there's a lower cost of entry for you.
RobbyYeah. The other element is um Yeah, you should have traffic sources. Like you need traffic, online traffic. You should have traffic sources. You should, you know what I mean? We we run ads, we teach the concept of the four traffic sources. We do all four.
GeorgeYeah, good. Good. I and that was something I used to always have issues with when I employed marketing companies that they never did their own marketing. And just thought, how could you how can you sit here and preach to me to run ads when you don't run ads for yourself? So that used to I used to find that did you I don't know if that's a personal thing, but that you should just bug me when companies wouldn't do that.
RobbyYeah, it's the biggest thing you've got to factor into is like are they B2C or B2B? Do you know what I mean? Um, and some companies don't know how to market B2B, it's a bit different. So we're a B2B company. Yeah, we work hard.
GeorgeWouldn't most wouldn't most marketing companies be B2B?
RobbyMarketing companies? Of course.
GeorgeThey're all B2B. That's right. Well, which individual is going to get a marketing company?
RobbyNo, yeah, but no, no, but I'm saying the consumer. That's their consumer, their their person could be B2C. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Pascal is a B2C company. Correct. You don't work for other companies, you work for consumers.
GeorgeWe do sometimes, but yes, the consumer would be the person we would be targeting.
RobbyYeah, most of the time. Whereas Builder Elite is all B2B.
GeorgeYes, absolutely.
RobbyYeah, so it's like they're different. So I get that side as well. You don't know how to do both.
GeorgeYeah. Well, it'll be an interesting close to the
Final Forecast And Sign-Off
Georgeyear. You know, we're in August, end of August now. Early September, sorry, by the time this comes out.
RobbyWill it be September?
GeorgeI don't know. I'm gonna say yes. Give it a crack.
RobbyAnyway. It is. It's the no, it's August. Is it still August? Monday's August. What a life.
GeorgeFour months. Four months till the end of the year.
RobbyGeorge wants it to be September already. I don't know.
GeorgeThere's four months till the end of the year, guys. That's you're gonna be starting to talk about the Christmas lockdown period really soon. Really, really soon. All right. So, what do you need to be doing now to forecast for the next 2027, for the next year, for the next quarter, for the next two quarters, whatever it is. What do you need to be doing? Make some magic shit happen.
Robby100%. On that note, thanks for tuning in. Loves having you. Episode 151. 151. You're 150th, George. Well done. I thank you. Finally got there. Took me an extra week. I'm just gonna hold that hold that open. I'm gonna hold it for as long as I can.
GeorgeI'm gonna come in here and do a podcast episode one day and just release it. Just give it to the boys and say, here, do an episode quickly before Robbie comes in.
RobbyYeah, before I just drop it. Um yeah, but uh yeah, things are tight. Sales cures all. I heard Mark Cuban say that once. Sales cures all. Things are tight. Whatever is going wrong in your business, yeah. Well, sales, it'll definitely help. Oh man. Yeah, it'll just bring revenue in the door, and revenue is the lifeblood of your business. Uh, it'll it'll make you feel better, it'll help you sleep better at night. Yeah.
GeorgeGreat Grand Cardone says a similar thing too. It's like he goes, you don't have is that that one client that's not paying you, or those clients are paying you. He goes, that's not your problem. Your problem is you don't have a hundred clients. Because if you had a hundred clients, those two guys that aren't paying you, or those two guys that are giving you grief, you wouldn't even be thinking about them.
RobbyBecomes less relevant for sure.
GeorgeYeah, that's it. Excellent. Thanks for tuning in, guys. We will see you next week. Thanks, everyone.
